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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 02 February 2013 at 4:49pm
Greetings Nur_Ilahi,

Are you familiar with this;

A Cherokee Legend

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy.

"It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego."

He continued, "The other wolf is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

and this;

Life by the Spirit

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law[but are led by the Spirit in obeying the law*].

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.  (this is what Paul taught)

Heart

* this is my note added for clarity


Edited by Caringheart - 02 February 2013 at 4:57pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 6:01pm
Greetings to you too Caringheart.

Yes I have read about that Cherokee Legend. It only confirms my knowledge that we are all the same, having the same characteristics from the same Creator.

Just for your info the Nafs (self/ego) has 7 levels. The first being the worst, while the last is the best.

The Commanding Self (nafs al-ammara),
The Blaming Self (nafs al-lawwama),
The Inspired Self (nafs al mulhimah),
The Satisfied Self (nafs al mutmainnah),
The Consenting Self (nafs al radiyah),
The Consent-Given Self (nafs al mardiyyah),
The Purified Self (nafs al safiyyah).

The characters as stated in the Cherokee legend - "anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego" are the characters of Nafsu Al-Ammarah.

As to the second part of your posting, I agree to many except this "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. "

Other characteristics of the Nafsu Al-amarah - Jealosy, Lust, Back Biting, Stinginess, Malice and many others.

We human beings have all these characters and in order to become a better person, we need to recognise these bad traits in us and to correct it as much as we can to increase our nafs to a better level. And it is there in the teachings of The Last Prophet Muhammad RAsulullah sent by Allah - Our Creator - in the Quran - The Last Testament as a guide to all humankind.

And I do not acquit myself. Indeed, the soul is a persistent enjoiner of evil, except those upon which my Lord has mercy. Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful - surah Yusuf 12:53
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 8:56pm
Greetings Nur-Ilahi,

I thought you would recognize the similarities.
Yes I did read about the many levels of nafs... and of Ruh too.  This is what I meant by how everything arabic is so complicated. Smile

Regarding this;
"As to the second part of your posting, I agree to many except this "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. "

I understand, you would have to 'belong to Christ' to understand what this means and how it works.  It simply means that those who have given their lives to God, those who have found God through Jesus, find it easy to defeat the temptations of the flesh.  
"my yoke is easy, my burden is light"
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (the words of Jesus)
 When you choose to give it over to God you are on a winning path.  A yoke is made for two... it shares the burden, and God will also carry us when we let Him.
"Even to your old age and gray hairs
    I am he, I am he who will sustain you.
I have made you and I will carry you;
    I will sustain you and I will rescue you."  (Isaiah)
They no longer try in their own power to overcome the temptations of the world and the flesh, but come to understand that only the power of God brings success.  Many have overcome addictions through this realization and turning their lives over to God.
This is what it means, "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

Salaam,
Caringheart

"Happy are those whose greatest desire is to do what God requires"


Edited by Caringheart - 03 February 2013 at 8:59pm
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Your reply is very confusing.  I suspect you haven't read Deedat's book and have no idea of what it contains, correct?
 
If you have read it, please provide us with a short 3 or 4 sentence summary of what the book claims.  How do you explain the fact that his book contradicts the Koran, in particular verse 4:157?
 
When the writings of Deedat contradict the Koran, which source to you consider to be correct, Deedat or the Koran???
 
Salaam,
I am not sure you are here but to clear the air you are correct; Ahmad Deedat did make that mistake. however I did a full research on the subject to correct the it so here it is:
<>

Paul said:

 “If Christ be not risen from the dead, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain.” (I Corinthians 15:14)

 In other words, the entire foundation of Christianity is in the death and resurrection of Jesus (S). If there is no resurrection, then the Christian’s teaching is in vain as there is nothing left in Christianity. So let’s look at this death and resurrection.

 Allah (S) said in the Qur’an:

And they said (in boast), “we killed Christ the son of Mary, the apostle of Allah”:- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it was made to appear to them so, and those who differ therein are full of doubt with no (certain) knowledge, but they follow only conjecture, for of a surety they killed him not. (Q.4:157)

 So He Allah (S) instructed the Prophet (S) to say:

Say: ‘Produce your proof if ye speak the truth’”. (Q.2:111)

I will examine the proof.  In the N.T. in John 16:16 (KJV) Jesus (s) told his disciples:

 

A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.John 16:16 (KJV)

In the “New International Version” they remove part of the verse “because I go to the Father”

"In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me." John16 

 You see that! They remove this last part of the verse because I go to the Father. WHY? They knew the implication that is why they removed it! “going to the father” Christians understand it to mean “the death and resurrection”.

Let us read it in context, Jesus (S) said:

“…A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.” John 16 (KJV)  
 

Then some of the disciples were enquiring what he meant:

17Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, “Because I go to the Father?”
 18They said therefore, “What is this that he saith” A little while? we cannot tell what he saith.

Now, Jesus (S) explained: 

19Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, “A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me?”

 In V.20to 32, Christians understood it to mean “the death and resurrection”. So, when he said:Because I go to the Father” that is referring to his death. It read as follows:

20Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

 21A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

22And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.  

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

 33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Which “hour” he is talking? The “hour” of “going to the Father”

  In that chapter, Christians understand “Because I go to the Father” to mean “the death and resurrection”. We Muslims understand it to mean the sign that was promised to the Jews when he said:

“For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the wale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”. Matt.12:40

Did Jonas die in the wale belly? No! He [Jesus (S)] went to Geth-sem-a-ne and pray asking God Almighty to change the situation.

And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. And he went a little farther, and fell on his face. And prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou will. Matt.26:35-39

Notice, he fell on his face and PRAYING to his God asking him to change the situation? Yes! And what happen next? His God send an angel to help him.

And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (Luke 22:43)

Another point he said: “My soul” and not “flesh”, not his human side “flesh” but his spiritual side “soul.” His soul was exceeding sorrowful even unto death, he fears death. Which God will fear death? According to the writings of the bible, The Father God was in him and with him in the same John 16: verse 32 and also john14:10.

Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am “not alone,” because the Father is “with me”. (John 16: 32)

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:10) 

If the Father is “with him and in him”, what is the purpose of “sending an angel?” Do angels strengthen God? Or why the angel has to strengthen Jesus (S) when all power was given unto him?

"...All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)

The angel was assuring him what is going to happen. Did God Almighty answer his prayers? Let us examine what Jesus (S) has to say because all the disciples fled from the scene.

And they all forsook him and fled. (Mark 14:50)

 

AFTER THE SUPPOSE CRUCIFIXION:

And when she (Mary Magdalene) had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and she knew not that it was Jesus. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? Whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener... (John 20:14-15)

  Mary knew Jesus (S) all through his ministry and within a day and a half she did not recognize him, she took him for a gardener, why? Is it another man “the gardener” God Almighty substitute instead of Jesus (S) and place a spirit (Rooh) upon him to act as Jesus (S)? I suppose, if a Christians saw the so call photo of Jesus (s) now and after twenty years they would recognize it, is that a fact? O Yes! Even the disciples did not know him:

“…But the disciples knew him not that it was Jesus.” John 21:4

Why? Because it was not him! Qur’an conforms that:

But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it was made to appear to them so, and those who differ therein are full of doubt with no (certain) knowledge, but they follow only conjecture… (Q.4:157)

   Mary didn’t recognize him nether the Disciples. As the Qur’an rightly said: “There are full of doubt with no (certain) knowledge”

Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme... (Q.3:55)

  The question is when did it happen? Is it possible when Jesus was at Gethsemane, because all the disciples were asleep which also indicate it was night too (see Matt.26:40) and that is where they laid hold on him (the supposed Jesus the Gardiner) Matt.26:57. May be, Allah (S) has placed a Spirit (Rooh) on him (the gardener) to act as Jesus (S). Of course, it was night and no one had that in mind [that Allah (S) will replace him with another man “the gardener” who Mary recognizes as. 

  Allah (S) said:

“And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planner is Allah! (Q.3:54)

   To be more certain it is not Jesus (S) we can look at the accounts of John when they were about to capture him:

   It is mentioned in John 18:1-8

V1When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with the disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a “GARDEN,” into which he entered, and his disciples.

V.3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.

V.4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth and said unto them, whom seek ye?

V.5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

V.6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, the went backward, and fell on the ground.

V.7 Then ask he them again, whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.

V.8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way.

  There you can see how Christians miss the boat. They did see that his enemy didn’t “recognize” the man to be Jesus (S).

 They were asking for Jesus of Nazareth, Why? Because he was not there! V.4 says that: “Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth and said unto them, whom seek ye?”  Think about it, Jesus was asking them “whom seek ye?” and what they said? V.5They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth.” why? Because they didn’t recognize him as Jesus (S) and he was just in front of them, and the suppose Jesus “the gardener” according to Mary in John 20:15 where she supposing him to be the gardener said: “I am he”. And what happen after that? V.6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell on the ground. Why? They were shock to know that they man whom they were looking for was right in front of them and they fall back, because they didn’t recognize him. AGAIN when he asks them in Verse7 they insisted “Jesus of Nazareth” why again? Because they didn’t recognize him to be Jesus (S), but the supposed Jesus the gardener insisted “I am he,” and in V. 8 he said: “I have told you that I am he more emphasis add here, why? Because they didn’t recognize him as Jesus (S), and also where they caught him? In the “garden,” and what Mary said? “She supposes him to be the gardener.” Coincident!

 You see! He look like a “gardener” and was caught in the “garden”, And they didn’t “recognize” him. It was not him!

 

I've established that:

 

1- Mary didn't RECONIZE HIM, Why?

2- The Disciples didn't RECONIZE HIM, Why?

3- And also when Judas and his band went to capture him they didn't RECONOZE HIM, Why?

4- They captured him in the GARDEN,

5- And Mary took him for a GARDENER.

 And Allah (S) said:

“That the rejected Faith; That they utter against Mary a grave false charge; That they said (in boast): We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah, But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it was made to appear to them so, and those who differ therein are full of doubt with no (certain) knowledge, but they follow only conjecture, for a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) but must believe in him (Jesus) before his death; And on the Day of Judgment he (Jesus) will be a witness against them.” (Q.4:156-159)

Br. zainool
 
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 9:11pm
<>

Even the supposed Jesus they did not kill as you read on:

Jesus said unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and said unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus said unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and my God, and your God. ( John 20:16-17 KJV)

 Remember he told the disciples:

“A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.” (John 16:16)

 And Christians understand it to mean that, he will die and resurrect; But the suppose Jesus is telling Mary he did not go to the father (died) as yet but go and tell them he did, “I ascend ” all ready died.  But the Devil is quick to draw the vial over your eyes in changing “I ascend” to “I will go”, I am returning. See other translations and compare it with the KJV

Allah (S) said:

For of a surety they killed him not. (Q.4:157)

Now, please don’t tell me that he was going up in the sky because he was speaking to Mary on the earth and he said, “Say unto them, I ascend unto my Father.” He was just there in front of her.  

 Paul testified that Jesus (S) did not die:

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him (God Almighty) that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)

 To what extend he prayed? He said:

“…My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death... And he went a little farther, and fell on his face. And prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou will.” (Matt.26:28-29)

  Also in Luke22:44

“And being in agony, he prayed more earnestly; and his sweet was, as it were, great drop of blood falling to the ground. Luke22:44

And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (Luke 22:43)

The angel assured him that God Almighty has answered his prayers:

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:16)

You see that! Paul knew, that why he confessed:

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him (God Almighty) that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)

He knew the truth, he confesses that he lied:

He said: “If the truth of God is more abundant in my lies why should I call a sinner?”

In other words, if he tells some lies to bring people to God he should no call a sinner.

  Even some of the Jews knew that he didn’t died, but what they did not know is that, he was the suppose Jesus the gardener. Read for yourself:

62“Now the next day… the chief priest and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, 63Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

64Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: So the LAST ERROR SHALL BE WORSE THAN THE FIRST (Matt.27:62-64

  They are talking about FIRST ERROR and LAST ERROR. What is the first error? They knew that they didn’t kill the suppose Jesus.

  Jesus, interestingly, told the Pharisees too:

“go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice” [Matthew 9:13].

 We all agree that Jesus Christ (S) was a righteous and a pious man and the O.T. says that the wicked will take his place: “In the work of his own hands the wicked is snared" [Psalm 9:16],

 

"The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, And the treacherous is in the place of the upright” [Proverbs 21:18],

 

and "The righteous is delivered from trouble, But the wicked takes his place" [Proverbs 11:8].

Who say that? The God of theof the Jews!

  Last point, what is a resurrected body? Let Jesus tells us:

“…For they are equal unto the angels,” Luke 20:27-27

 Meaning, that they will be Angelised, they will be Spiritualized, they will be Spirit! As to regards the suppose Jesus:

“Behold my hand and feet, that it is I myself: handle me and see: for a SPIRIT has no flesh and bone, as you see me have. (Luke 24:39-40)

If Christ be not risen from the dead, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain. (I Corinthians15:14)

  Is the crucifixion true or doubtful? The Qur’an says, “It is doubt full with no certain knowledge” Why Mary didn’t recognize him, neither the disciples, even when Judas and his band of men didn’t recognize him when they went to capture him? Because it was not him (it was doubt full) and I would not put my soul in something that is “doubt full!”

  And they said (in boast), “we killed Christ the son of Mary, the apostle of Allah”:- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it was made to appear to them so, and those who differ therein are full of doubt with no (certain) knowledge, but they follow only conjecture, for of a surety they killed him not. (Q.4:157)


Br. zainool

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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

 
Hi Caringheart.
There are similarities here. Indeed the Ruh or - once inside the body of a human it is also called the Nafs - is indeed from The Almighty God. And He with His Mercy and Love towards His Creations especially us human beings had already equipped with 7 of His characteristics in the Ruh. And one of them is Ilm or Knowledge. Especially the knowledge of God. That is the reason many people in this whole world are searching for Him. Some already found Him, while some still are groping in the dark. Those who are still in the dark perhaps have not found the One True God, He who has no beginning and He who has no end.


Greetings Nur_Ilahi,

Oh, I thought that Ruh and nafs were two different things.  I did alot of reading to try to come to a proper understanding, because my first response was that the Ruh was nothing like the Holy Spirit, until I did some more reading and learned about nafs. (I found it all quite complicated as is everything arabic.)  Smile
At first it seemed that the Ruh was simply the soul, then I read about nafs and came to understand that this is soul, and that Ruh is spirit, which is something more.

Salaam,
Caringheart
Peace my friend,

You are correct, the Scholars made that mistake by interchange the word when translate it. I did a review on it here is it:

<>

What or who is the “Holy Spirit.”

It is very important to note that we make genuine mistakes sometimes and we don’t realize it. In this chapter I have established what a spirit, the human spirit is and what or who is the Holy Spirit according to the scriptures.

In Islam the scholars explained that the Holy Spirit is Angel Gabriel (S) which is true. The Arabic word used there is roohu alqudus which translated as Holy Spirit. However, they also translate the word “rooh” as angel Gabriel (S) and sometimes as spirit and as soul.

I shall look at the word “Spirit”. In the Greek Septuagint O.T. (LXX) pneuma is for spirit and in Hebrew Ruah is for Spirit and in Arabic Rooh is for Spirit.

The question one never asks is what is a Spirit? A Spirit is a supernatural entity: a supernatural being that does not have a physical body, for example some are call, ghost, and demon, Jinn and angel etc. In reality they are in a form of conscious energy.

 

Having that understanding what a “spirit” is, in Islam we understand them as the human spirit, jinn and angel.

v  THE HUMAN SPIRIT:

The Human’s spirit is that which Allah (S) created for each person at the beginning, we were and are spiritual being and we were sent here on earth at our appointed time until the Day of Judgment.

 Allah (S) said:

Ø  فَإِذَا سَوَّيْتُهُ وَنَفَخْتُ فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِي فَقَعُوا لَهُ سَاجِدِينَ (38:72)

Faitha sawwaytuhu wanafakhtu feehi min roohee faqaAAoo lahu sajideena (Qur’an 38:72)

"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him." (Qur’an 38:72)

When Allah (S) says: “We breathed into him of my spirit!”  Does that mean the spirit that Allah (S) bread into Adam (S) is Allah (S) or part of Allah (S)? No! How do we know that? Allah (S) gives us the answer in his Noble Book the Qur’an, He mentioned:

Ø  يَوْمَ يَقُومُ الرُّوحُ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ صَفًّا لَّا يَتَكَلَّمُونَ إِلَّا مَنْ أَذِنَ لَهُ الرحْمَنُ وَقَالَ صَوَابًا (78:38)

Yawma yaqoomu alrroohu waalmalaikatu saffan la yatakallamoona illa man athina lahu alrrahmanu waqala sawaban

“The Day that the spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (Allah) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right.” (Qur’an 78:38)

On the Day of Judgment the Spirit (Rooh) and the angels will stand forth in ranks in front of Allah (S). If the spirit (Ruh) was Allah (S) then that would mean on the Day of Judgment Allah (S) will stand forth in front of himself which is incorrect. When Allah (S) used the term “My Spirit” it simply means everything belongs to Allah (S), example: My throne, My universe, My servants, My angels, My Spirit etc.; all was created  by Allah (S) for a purpose.

That spirit which Allah (S) breathed into Adam (S) is the spirit he created for Adam (S) and after that he created all the spirits of Adam’s descendants at the beginning. They were and are spiritual being and they were sent here on earth at their appointed time until the Day of Judgment. It is mentioned in His Noble Book the Qur’an:

 

“When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): “Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?” They said: “Yea! We do testify!” (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: “Varily, we have been unaware of this”

 

Or lest ye should say: “It was Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us who took others as partnesrin worship along with Allah, and we were (merely their) decendants after them; will you then destroy us because of the  deeds of men?”  Al-A'raf (The Heights) 7:172-173  

 All the children of Adam’s were created at the beginning in spirit (Rooh)and were testifying concerning the one true God-Allah (S) that He is their Lord, so that, on the Day of Judgment they will have no excuses.

It is also in the O.T. Prophet Solomon is reported in Proverbs 8:22-27 (NIV) to have said:

"22 The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; 23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,

 According to Job 38:4 and 21 (NIV), God addresses Prophet Job as follows:

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?

21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!

Why we do not remember what happen in the beginning? Allah (S) tells us in the Noble Qur’an:

By the time, verily Man is in lost, except such as have faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual enjoining of truth, and of patience and constancy. (Q.103:1-3)

By the passing of time: Time begins with Allah’s (S) creations and we were created in the beginning to witness the one true Creator Allah (S) before we were place here on earth. We then  become forgetful and ungrateful of the Creator Allah (S), we are in a state of lost or forgetfulness by the passing of time, and to get back there we have to put our trust and have faith in Allah (S) by following His reminder (The Qur’an and the prophet’s (S) Sunnah)

 

Allah (S) said:

 

 

Ø  وَمَنْ أَعْرَضَ عَن ذِكْرِي فَإِنَّ لَهُ مَعِيشَةً ضَنكًا وَنَحْشُرُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ أَعْمَى (20:124)

Waman aAArada AAan thikree fainna lahu maAAeeshatan dankan wanahshuruhu yawma alqiyamati aAAman

"But whosoever turns away from My Message (Dhikr), verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment. He will say: "O my Lord! why hast Thou raised me up blind, while I had sight (before)?" (Allah)) will say: "Thus didst Thou, when Our Signs came unto thee, disregard them: so wilt thou, this day, be disregarded." 20:124-126 (Y. Ali)

The Arabic word there is “dhikr” which mean “reminder” and it translates as “Message” by Y. All. So the Qur’an is the “reminder” and it reminds us of whom we are and where we came from where we have to go and how to get there.

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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 9:26pm
Ah, they killed the gardener...Shocked
Add it to the list I guess.
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 03 February 2013 at 9:26pm
<>

v  THE HOLY SPIRIT

Now that we understood what is a human spirit, the next question what is the Holy Spirit? It simple, all spirits that comes from Allah (S) is Holy. However, the title “Holy Spirit” was given to the messenger of Allah (S) “Jibreel/Gabriel (S)”. The scholar of Islam explains:

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: the majority of scholars said that the Holy Spirit  refers to Jibreel (peace be upon him), and that Allaah called him al-Rooh al-Ameen, Rooh al-Qudus and Jibreel."  (Daqaa'iq al-Tafseer, part 1, p. 310)

         Proof of that is in Qur’an, Allah (S) commanded the prophet (S) true Gabriel:

“Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-“ (Qur’an 2:97)

Qul man kana AAaduwwan lijibreela fainnahu nazzalahu AAala qalbika biithni Allahi musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi wahudan wabushra lilmumineena (Q.2:97)

  In the above verse is say Gabriel (S) brought the revelation. In the verse below it says the “Holy Spirit” brought the revelation which means Gabriel (S) is the “Holy Spirit” (Roohu alqudus):

Ø  قُلْ نَزَّلَهُ رُوحُ الْقُدُسِ مِن رَّبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَهُدًى وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ (16:102)

Qul nazzalahu roohu alqudusi min rabbika bialhaqqi liyuthabbita allatheena amanoo wahudan wabushra lilmuslimeena

“Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims. (Qur’an16:102)

 

Although Gabriel (S) has the title “Roohu alqudus” (Holy Spirit) in another verse he was called “Spirit (Rooh)” alone in short and was translates as “angel” and that was at the announcement to Mary of birth of Jesus (S), it read:

Ø  فَاتَّخَذَتْ مِن دُونِهِمْ حِجَابًا فَأَرْسَلْنَا إِلَيْهَا رُوحَنَا فَتَمَثَّلَ لَهَا بَشَرًا سَوِيًّا (19:17)

Faittakhathat min doonihim hijaban faarsalna ilayha roohana fatamaththala laha basharan sawiyyan (Qur’an 19:17)

She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. (Qur’an 19:17)

The word used there is “ilayha roohana”. The reason why it translates as “angel” is because it was Gabriel (S) who visits Mary .Spirit doesn’t take form as a man! That is how Angel Gabriel (S) appears on earth when he comes in contact with human being; he appears as a human being. The verse below conforms that it was Gabriel (S):

Ø  إِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلآئِكَةُ يَا مَرْيَمُ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُبَشِّرُكِ بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنْهُ اسْمُهُ الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَجِيهًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمِنَ الْمُقَرَّبِينَ (3:45)

Ith qalati almalaikatu ya maryamu inna Allaha yubashshiruki bikalimatin minhu ismuhu almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama wajeehan fee alddunya waalakhirati wamina almuqarrabeena

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.” Q.3:45 (Y. Ali)

The word used there is almalaikatu ( the angels).

The N.T. says the same thing:

And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.” Luke 1:26-27

However, in Matthew 1:20 it mentioned:

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.” Matthew 1:20

There is no such thing as “Ghost” in the scriptures; it is “Spirit (Rooh or Raaha)” They add it when the wrote the message in Greek, they call the Spirit a Ghost and that is where the word Ghost Spell come from. First the come up with God Spell, then Good Sell then Ghost spell; the word should “Holt Spirit” but let we stick with the word Holy Ghost for now. After said that, there is a misunderstanding of the usage of word by the scholars; in Joseph’s dream, the angel of the Lord was Gabriel (S) and he said: “for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.” Now, because the word Holy Ghost used there the scholars of Islam took it for Gabriel (S) and that is because Allah (S) address Gabriel (S) as Holy Ghost (roohu alqudus) as I have explained above, but look what Allah (S) says in the Qur’an:

“And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples”. (Qur’an 21:91)

Ø  وَالَّتِي أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا فَنَفَخْنَا فِيهَا مِن رُّوحِنَا وَجَعَلْنَاهَا وَابْنَهَا آيَةً لِّلْعَالَمِينَ (21:91)

Waallatee ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feeha min roohina wajaAAalnaha waibnaha ayatan lilAAalameena (Qur’an 21:91)

Here also:

Ø  وَمَرْيَمَ ابْنَتَ عِمْرَانَ الَّتِي أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَهَا فَنَفَخْنَا فِيهِ مِن رُّوحِنَا وَصَدَّقَتْ بِكَلِمَاتِ رَبِّهَا وَكُتُبِهِ وَكَانَتْ مِنَ الْقَانِتِينَ (66:12)

Wamaryama ibnata AAimrana allatee ahsanat farjaha fanafakhna feehi min roohina wasaddaqat bikalimati rabbiha wakutubihi wakanat mina alqaniteena (Qur’an 66:12)

“And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).” (Qur’an 66:12)

Allah (S) said: “We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit!” When the N.T. used the word Holy Ghost, it is referring to a Spirit from Allah (S) and when Allah (S) used the term “My Spirit and Our Spirit” that does not in any way mean the Spirit is Allah (S) or part of Him as what the Christian’s Scholar are saying that the Holy Ghost is God Almighty. When Allah (S) used the term “My Spirit” it simply means everything belongs to Allah (S), example: My throne, My universe, My servants, My angels, My Spirit etc.; all was created  by Allah (S) for a purpose.

 This verse below clearly shows that Allah (S) does not referrers to Himself when He used the term “Our Spirit” (min roohina):

يَوْمَ يَقُومُ الرُّوحُ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ صَفًّا لَّا يَتَكَلَّمُونَ إِلَّا مَنْ أَذِنَ لَهُ الرحْمَنُ وَقَالَ صَوَابًا (78:38)

Yawma yaqoomu alrroohu waalmalaikatu saffan la yatakallamoona illa man athina lahu alrrahmanu waqala sawaban

“The Day that the spirit and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (Allah) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right.” (Qur’an 78:38)

Jesus (S) was described as a Spirit proceeding from Allah (Roohun minhu) but he is not Allah (S):

Ø  يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ (4:171)

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu(Q.4:171)       

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His word (BE), which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him (Roohun minhu)…(Q.4:171)    

And Allah (S) strengthens Jesus (S) with “Rooh-alqudus [Gabriel (S)]”:

Ø  إِذْ قَالَ اللّهُ يَا عِيسى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ اذْكُرْ نِعْمَتِي عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَى وَالِدَتِكَ إِذْ أَيَّدتُّكَ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ (5:110)

Ith qala Allahu ya AAeesa ibna maryama othkur niAAmatee AAalayka waAAala walidatika ith ayyadtuka biroohi alqudusi (Qur’an 5:110)

Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit… (Qur’an 5:110)

Also:

Ø  وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَا مُوسَى الْكِتَابَ وَقَفَّيْنَا مِن بَعْدِهِ بِالرُّسُلِ وَآتَيْنَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَيَّدْنَاهُ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ (2:87)

Walaqad atayna moosa alkitaba waqaffayna min baAAdihi bialrrusuli waatayna AAeesa ibna maryama albayyinati waayyadnahu biroohi alqudusi (Qur’an 2:87)

We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit… (Qur’an 2:87) 

 

It is also in the N.T. according to Matthew3:16

And Jesus, when he was baptized…lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him… Matthew3:16

Note: The Spirit of God there is not God Almighty! It is Gabriel (S) comes from God Almighty and he descended like a dove and lighting upon him.

Allah (S) also strengthens the Believers (Muslims) with spirit from Himself (roohin minhu):

Ø  لَا تَجِدُ قَوْمًا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ يُوَادُّونَ مَنْ حَادَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَلَوْ كَانُوا آبَاءهُمْ أَوْ أَبْنَاءهُمْ أَوْ إِخْوَانَهُمْ أَوْ عَشِيرَتَهُمْ أُوْلَئِكَ كَتَبَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمُ الْإِيمَانَ وَأَيَّدَهُم بِرُوحٍ مِّنْهُ وَيُدْخِلُهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا عَنْهُ أُوْلَئِكَ حِزْبُ اللَّهِ أَلَا إِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ (58:22)

La tajidu qawman yuminoona biAllahi waalyawmi alakhiri yuwaddoona man hadda Allaha warasoolahu walaw kanoo abaahum aw abnaahum aw ikhwanahum aw AAasheeratahum olaika kataba fee quloobihimu aleemana waayyadahum biroohin minhu wayudkhiluhum jannatin tajree min tahtiha alanharu khalideena feeha radiya Allahu AAanhum waradoo AAanhu olaika hizbu Allahi ala inna hizba Allahi humu almuflihoona (Qur’an 58:22)

“Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah (Hezbullah). Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Success.” (Qur’an 58:22)

 

And Allah (S) said He:

Ø  رَفِيعُ الدَّرَجَاتِ ذُو الْعَرْشِ يُلْقِي الرُّوحَ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ عَلَى مَن يَشَاء مِنْ عِبَادِهِ لِيُنذِرَ يَوْمَ التَّلَاقِ (40:15)

RafeeAAu alddarajati thoo alAAarshi yulqee alrrooha min amrihi AAala man yashao min AAibadihi liyunthira yawma alttalaqi (Qur’an 40:15)

“Raised high above ranks (or degrees), (He is) the Lord of the Throne (of Authority): by His Command doth He send the spirit (of inspiration) to any of His servants he pleases, that it may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting,” (Qur’an 40:15)

But he Allah (S) also said when they ask thee concerning the spirit (of inspiration). Say:

Ø  وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن الْعِلْمِ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً (17:85)

Wayasaloonaka AAani alrroohi quli alrroohu min amri rabbee wama ooteetum mina alAAilmi illa qaleelan (Qur’an 17:85)

‘The spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)’" (Qur’an 17:85)

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