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Interfaith Dialogue
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2013 at 4:46am
(To continue with Maulana’s commentary on 2:73).

Quote:
73a. The construction of the phrase, i˙rib∂-hu bi-ba‘˙i-ha, (Strike him with some of it) is rather difficult, but a comparison with 4:157 makes the meaning clear.
Oarb, as shown in 60a, conveys a number of significations. It means striking as well as likening, and an instance of the latter significance we find in the Qur’an itself, where it is said ya˙ribu-llahu-l-√aqqa wa-lbaΔila, Allah compares truth and falsehood (13:17). In ba‘˙i-ha (lit., a part of it), the personal pronoun ha, i.e., it, refers to the act of murder.
The act of murder was not completed in the case of Jesus, as the Gospels show, for his legs were not broken, as in the case of the thieves. The meaning of the
sentence is therefore according to the signification of ˙arb that we adopt: strike him with partial death, or liken his condition to that of the partially dead man; and thus he was made to appear as a dead man, as stated in 4:157. There is no other case of a murder or an attempted murder in Jewish history of which the whole nation could be said to have been guilty, and which might answer to the description of these two verses.

73b. This was really a case of giving life to the dead, for Jesus Christ was dead to
all appearance. Those actually dead do not return to life in this world.

(In his footnotes, he explained that), --- The words صَلَبُوهُ مَا in Qur'an 4:157, do not negate Jesus' PBUH, being nailed to a cross; they only negate his having expired on the cross as a result of being nailed to it. He also explains that Prophet Jesus, PBUH, "died a natural death as is plainly stated in S. 5:117" of Al-Qur'an.
5:117. I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and thou art witness of all things. --- Shakir’s translation.
However, some translations do not use the word "die," instead; when thou didst take me up, or, when thou took me. --- End of quote.


Compare the following:
2:73 Yusuf Ali: So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

--- (Yusuf Ali uses the literal translation of the word ‘strike,’ --- whereas Maulana says it can mean ‘strike’ --- or ‘likening,’ - ‘comparing,’ --- so the following is with that meaning.)
2:73 Sher Ali: Then WE said, `Compare this incident with some other similar ones' and you will discover the truth. Thus does ALLAH give life to the dead and show you HIS Signs that you may understand.

--- (And the comparison of the unblemished heifer in 2:71 in Moses day, ---was to the commandment that God gave through Moses to choose an unblemished heifer,in Numbers 19.

Compare these verses as well:
4:157 Yusuf Ali: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God"; - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
157 Sher Ali: And for their saying, `We did slay the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of ALLAH;' whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no certain knowledge thereof, but only pursue a conjecture; and they did not arrive at a certainty concerning it.

This is as Webber has been saying, “The Jews didn’t kill Jesus.”
“Nor did they (the Jews) bring about His death upon the cross.”


Placid

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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2013 at 7:25am
Originally posted by Webber

Originally posted by honeto

CArinheart,
is that the reason you say now that different ways lead to God, when you quote "in their wisdom they became fools"?
Hasan
LOL, That was a quote about the Jews also.
 
God isn't about religion, He's about a daily personnal walk.

Hi Webber,

It may have been about the Jews as well, but God's Word is for all time... it applies to all of us through all time... I would say even more so today than ever.  Man has gained so much ground in what he feels is of his own making, that he no longer gives credit to, or seeks, God.

I agree belonging to God is about a daily personal walk.

Peace,
Caringheart Smile


Edited by Caringheart - 25 January 2013 at 7:39am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2013 at 7:33am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi


Originally posted by Caringheart


I hear prejudice in that statement.

That was not meant as a prejudice, but more of a fact.

A fact born of a prejudiced heart.  Not all Jews are bad or evil.
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi


I doubt if you follow 100 percent of what Jesus alaihissalam taught. If you are not following 100 percent, you will never ever be able to even come near the Truth.

Ah... but I do... because I have the Holy Spirit.
You are however correct, I am sure that I am not perfected in God's will just yet, and I am sure I do not meet 100 percent of what Jesus taught.  I am human still.  What I do have is the Holy Spirit which convicts me in my heart, and I seek God's forgiveness for my shortcomings and for His guidance to be stronger and better in doing His will. Smile

Peace and blessings to you,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 25 January 2013 at 7:35am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2013 at 5:31am
Originally posted by Caringheart

A fact born of a prejudiced heart.  Not all Jews are bad or evil.

Have to agree to that. There are even Jews who converted to Islam.
Originally posted by Caringheart

Ah... but I do... because I have the Holy Spirit.You are however correct, I am sure that I am not perfected in God's will just yet, and I am sure I do not meet 100 percent of what Jesus taught.  I am human still.  What I do have is the Holy Spirit which convicts me in my heart, and I seek God's forgiveness for my shortcomings and for His guidance to be stronger and better in doing His will. [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />Peace and blessings to you,Caringheart

I guess the Holy Spirit that you mentioned must be the Ruh that Allah had given each and everyone of us. Without The Ruh, we are nothing. We may have eyes, but could not see, have ears, but cannot hear, have tongue, but cannot talk etc. How important this Ruh is to each and everyone of us. With this Ruh we are connected to our Creator and if you are able to delve deeper, you will feel His presence that will make you feel calm and peaceful. Yes we are taught to be always asking His forgiveness. Indeed we are human who always err. And He is Al-Ghafur - Most Forgiving.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2013 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi


I guess the Holy Spirit that you mentioned must be the Ruh that Allah had given each and everyone of us. Without The Ruh, we are nothing. We may have eyes, but could not see, have ears, but cannot hear, have tongue, but cannot talk etc. How important this Ruh is to each and everyone of us. With this Ruh we are connected to our Creator and if you are able to delve deeper, you will feel His presence that will make you feel calm and peaceful. Yes we are taught to be always asking His forgiveness. Indeed we are human who always err. And He is Al-Ghafur - Most Forgiving.


Greetings Nur-Ilahi,

Thank you for sharing this teaching.  I had not previously heard of 'Ruh'.  I will be reading up to learn more.  Is Ruh mentioned in the Qur'an?

Salaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Webber


Originally posted by honeto

CArinheart,
is that the reason you say now that different ways lead to God, when you quote "in their wisdom they became fools"?
Hasan
LOL, That was a quote about the Jews also.
 
God isn't about religion, He's about a daily personnal walk.
 


and who would know that better than a Muslim? None.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 28 January 2013 at 2:31pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



Originally posted by honeto

CArinheart,
is that the reason you say now that different ways lead to God, when you quote "in their wisdom they became fools"?
Hasan
*sighNo Hasan,The more human knowledge man gains, the less he seeks the wisdom of God... to be guided by God.  Man begins to think he is a power unto himself.We are talking about two completely different things here.Caringheart


I was referring to something you have said on the forum, that there are many ways that lead to God. Is that's what happens when you loose belief in what you thought was the truth, but no longer see it that way, so you said, there are many ways that lead to God".
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 28 January 2013 at 2:36pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2013 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Webber


Originally posted by honeto

CArinheart,
is that the reason you say now that different ways lead to God, when you quote "in their wisdom they became fools"?
Hasan
LOL, That was a quote about the Jews also.
 
God isn't about religion, He's about a daily personnal walk.
 


and who would know that better than a Muslim? None.
Hasan
 
I assume you mean a Muslim would know it was about Jews.
It would be highly presumptuous to say one man's worship is worth more than another.
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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