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Interfaith Dialogue
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 7:12am
To continue in Surah 2 after the sacrifice of the yellow heifer, 67-71:

This is a good discussion so let’s look at the next two verses.
--- Here the heavenly Voice is again speaking to the Jews:
72 Pickthall: ‘And remember when you slew a man and disagreed concerning it and God brought forth that which you were hiding.’
73. ‘And We said: Smite him with some of it. --- Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth His portents so that you may understand.’

72 Yusuf Ali: ‘Remember ye slew a man and fell into a dispute among yourselves about the crime. But God was to bring forth what ye did hide.’
73 ‘So We said, “Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer).” Thus God bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.’

72 Shakir: And when you killed a man, then you disagreed with respect to that, and Allah was to bring forth that which you were going to hide.
73 ‘So We said, “Strike the (dead body) with part of the (Sacrificed cow),” thus God brings the dead to life, and He shows you His signs so that you may understand.’

In a footnote in Mr Pickthall’s translation, Maulana Muhammad Ali says these verses refer to the martyrdom of Jesus Christ.   
In his commentary below, Maulana says the Arabic word used can mean, ‘striking,’ or ‘likening,’ --- or, ‘comparing,’ --- as Sher Ali renders it:

72 Sher Ali: And remember the time when you killed a person and differed among yourselves about it, and ALLAH, would bring to light what you were hiding.
73 ‘Then WE said, “Compare this incident with some other similar ones and you will discover the truth.” Thus does GOD give life to the dead and show you HIS Signs that you may understand.’


Placid

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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 8:01am
 
It is very simple and it doesn't take any analysis to see the "they" that the entire Surah is talking about are the Jews. You have a whole Ayat says the Jews did not kill Jesus. That's pretty much all it says unless you have another Ayat to back it up.
 
Take another look at the Ayat and tell me if it actually says (simple and clearly) that Jesus was never put on a cross. What you will see is that it appeared as if the Jews killed Him, but we now know they didn't.
 
Go back and read the challenge.
 
Once you have that figured out I can explain how nobody killed Jesus.
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 8:58am
Rational: In 11 years NOT EVEN ONE MUSLIM HAS EVER said anything negative about Deedat.
 
Yes, that is correct.  To the best of my recollection, I have never encountered a posting in a muslim forum where a muslim has said anything negative about Deedat.
 
Rational, I'm unsure from your comments whether you are a supporter or a critic of Deedat.  Are you a critic?  If you are willing to criticize him, then you would be the first example of a muslim I have encountered who was willing to do so.
 
(I have, of course, done google searches where I have encountered muslims who criticize Deedat.  My first posting within this thread (post #3 overall) quotes one such muslim.  But I repeat my claim that, in an ongoing discussion on a muslim forum (such as this thread) I have never encountered a muslim who was willing to criticize Deedat or his writings.)
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 7:03pm
Dear Webber,

If you read the Quran, you will understand the concept of God more thoroughly. The 99 names of Allah is being repeated and repeated in the Quran to show us His servants who is He is. Allahu Akbar - Allah The Greatest, Allah Ar-Rahman - Allah The Most Gracious, Allah Ar-Raheem - Allah The Most Merciful, Al-Aziz - The Mighty, Al-Muhaymin - ~The Protector and so on and so forth.

Now by bringing Jesus up to Him, Allah is applying all His attributes that He is Al-Aziz The Mighty and He is the Protector - Al-Muhaymin and He is Ar-Raheem - Most Merciful. Especially to His dear Prophet - Jesus Alaihissalam. He heard the supplication of Jesus because he is As-Samak - All Hearing. And if He were to exchange someone else for Jesus, He can do so because He is Al-Muqtadir - Most Powerful. And if it were Judas who were being crucified, it just shows that He is Al-Adl - Most Just and He is indeed Al-Aleem - All Knowing.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

Dear Webber,

If you read the Quran, you will understand the concept of God more thoroughly. The 99 names of Allah is being repeated and repeated in the Quran to show us His servants who is He is. Allahu Akbar - Allah The Greatest, Allah Ar-Rahman - Allah The Most Gracious, Allah Ar-Raheem - Allah The Most Merciful, Al-Aziz - The Mighty, Al-Muhaymin - ~The Protector and so on and so forth.

Now by bringing Jesus up to Him, Allah is applying all His attributes that He is Al-Aziz The Mighty and He is the Protector - Al-Muhaymin and He is Ar-Raheem - Most Merciful. Especially to His dear Prophet - Jesus Alaihissalam. He heard the supplication of Jesus because he is As-Samak - All Hearing. And if He were to exchange someone else for Jesus, He can do so because He is Al-Muqtadir - Most Powerful. And if it were Judas who were being crucified, it just shows that He is Al-Adl - Most Just and He is indeed Al-Aleem - All Knowing.


Greetings Nur_Ilahi,

You give good answers and are very pleasant. Smile

Salaam,
Caringheart
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 8:14pm
Hi Nur Ilahi,
Ascension is another thing I'll go over in time. I was working on one thing at a time here.
 
Have you come up with a more direct answer to 157 saying Jesus did not die? Jesus was not killed? Jesus was not crucified?
 
Other than "They" didn't do it?
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 10:17pm
You're waisting everyones time. Muslims can see you have your answer to your little challenge.. The ayeh is clear, it says they didn't crucify him and I asked you, how did he die then? But I know you won't answer. Sorry to burst your bubble but you haven't discovered anything [IMG]smileys/smiley36.gif" align="middle" /> Moving on...
Originally posted by Webber



 
It is very simple and it doesn't take any analysis to see the "they" that the entire Surah is talking about are the Jews. You have a whole Ayat says the Jews did not kill Jesus. That's pretty much all it says unless you have another Ayat to back it up.
 
Take another look at the Ayat and tell me if it actually says (simple and clearly) that Jesus was never put on a cross. What you will see is that it appeared as if the Jews killed Him, but we now know they didn't.
 
Go back and read the challenge.
 
Once you have that figured out I can explain how nobody killed Jesus.


Edited by Rational - 21 January 2013 at 10:19pm
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Rational
 
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Quote Rational Replybullet Posted: 21 January 2013 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi

Now by bringing Jesus up to Him, Allah is applying all His attributes that He is Al-Aziz The Mighty and He is the Protector - Al-Muhaymin and He is Ar-Raheem - Most Merciful. Especially to His dear Prophet - Jesus Alaihissalam. He heard the supplication of Jesus because he is As-Samak - All Hearing. And if He were to exchange someone else for Jesus, He can do so because He is Al-Muqtadir - Most Powerful. And if it were Judas who were being crucified, it just shows that He is Al-Adl - Most Just and He is indeed Al-Aleem - All Knowing.

Masha Allah wa Allaho Akbur

Edited by Rational - 21 January 2013 at 10:25pm
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