IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: CRUCIFIED OR CRUCIPLAYED

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iec786

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Posted: 06 June 2012 at 8:52am

Yes it did and Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this.Remember at the most critical juncture the Bible tells us that they all forsook him and fled.No one of his was there to witness what had happened.I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book.

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honeto

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Posted: 06 June 2012 at 1:20pm

Reepicheep,

to answer, the verse clearly says: " Surely, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him". And since the Quran did not mention any other person being crucified by name, we are not to speculate. Only Allah knows.

Love you,

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 06 June 2012 at 3:38pm

So, Honeto, you believe that it was NOT Jesus who was put on the cross?

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honeto

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Posted: 07 June 2012 at 1:13pm

Reepicheep,

I want to be clear, according to the Quran, God raised him (Jesus pbuh) up to Himself. For me the chapter is closed there. Who was put to the cross, we can discuss that since it was a common method for Romans to kill those condemned to death. So there were so many people who were cursified in those days. It will be hard to get to know each one of thems names. Only Allah knows.

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 08 June 2012 at 7:42am

iec786 wrote: Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this... I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book.

Of course I've read the book. I would be quite the fool if I was to make claims about what was in the book, if I hadn't read it. Right?

Your recent comment causes me to repeat the comment I made on April 12 within this thread:

I suspect you haven't read Deedat's book and have no idea of what it contains, correct?

Deedat's book defends the "swoon" theory of the crucifixion, which states in brief:

Jesus was crucified on the cross.

He sufferred and became unconscious.

The Roman soldiers thought he was dead.

He was buried in a tomb.

Then his disciples came and resuscitated him.

I don't see how Deedat's theory can be reconciled with what is written in the koran. And Deedat certainly didn't accept the theory that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus.

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iec786

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Posted: 08 June 2012 at 11:21pm

Originally posted by Reepicheep

iec786 wrote: Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this... I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book.

Of course I've read the book. I would be quite the fool if I was to make claims about what was in the book, if I hadn't read it. Right?

Your recent comment causes me to repeat the comment I made on April 12 within this thread:

I suspect you haven't read Deedat's book and have no idea of what it contains, correct?

Deedat's book defends the "swoon" theory of the crucifixion, which states in brief:

Jesus was crucified on the cross.

He sufferred and became unconscious.

The Roman soldiers thought he was dead.

He was buried in a tomb.

Then his disciples came and resuscitated him.

I don't see how Deedat's theory can be reconciled with what is written in the koran. And Deedat certainly didn't accept the theory that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus.

The Bible says all his disciples forsook him and fled.Does all mean all in your language?if yes then who seen who on the cross remember all those who swore to die for him forsook him and fled like cowards.

And Deedat certainly didn't accept the theory that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus.

Deedat never worked with theory he worked with facts.

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Reepicheep

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Joined: 06 November 2006
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Posts: 235

Posted: 10 June 2012 at 5:08pm

iec786 wrote: Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this... I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book.

iec786 also wrote: Deedat never worked with theory he worked with facts.

You seem to be saying that Deedat was telling the truth when he claimed that it WAS Jesus who was arrested by the Romans, put on trial, sentenced to death, put on the cross, declared dead, put into the tomb, and later revived. Correct?

But, in your previous post, you stated that it wasn't Jesus but instead Judas who was crucified.

How can both these beliefs be true? They contradict each other.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 11 June 2012 at 1:17pm

I must address this as I have given it quite a lot of study.
Here iec786 is asserting that, according to Islam, Judas was crucified in Jesus' place. How does he think this occurred... this substitution?
I have had arguments with other Muslims who assert that there was a bar-Jesus that took Jesus' place on the cross, due to Roman error.
Anyone who knows anything about Romans, and Roman history, and the Roman military and societal structure, knows that such an error would never happen. It would have cost the soldier his own life to allow such a mistake or substitution, to occur. Romans were not careless in their duties due to the cost to their own lives if they were. Romans were ruthless.

As far as witnesses at the cross, Mary the mother of Jesus was there, Mary Magdalene was there... many women were there... 'all the people who had gathered to witness this sight saw what took place'... and so was John whom Jesus gave charge to be as a son to Mary His mother, after His death.
"When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"

The disciples fled yes, at Jesus capture, but no where is there any statement as to whether or not they returned, to watch at a distance, the crucifixion. This matter is not addressed, except in as much as the above statement. We do not know which of them may have been there, aside from 'the disciple whom He loved', assumed to be John.

It is sensible to me to assume that they were there. Joseph of Arimathea("a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews") came to claim the body to bury it. How could the disciples not be there to witness the end of one they loved so much... to watch and see how He might be saved at the last minute.
The greater testimony is in the crowd of witnesses who saw Jesus after His resurrection.

All these reports were never disputed during the time in which they were being written... during the time in which the witnesses would still have been living and well able to make dispute.

Addressing the topic of this thread it seems clear to me that Mr Deedat does indeed contradict the teaching of both the Bible and the Qur'an.

Edited by Caringheart - 11 June 2012 at 1:23pm

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Author	Message
iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 06 June 2012 at 8:52am
	Yes it did and Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this.Remember at the most critical juncture the Bible tells us that they all forsook him and fled.No one of his was there to witness what had happened.I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book.
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 06 June 2012 at 1:20pm
	Reepicheep, to answer, the verse clearly says: " Surely, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him". And since the Quran did not mention any other person being crucified by name, we are not to speculate. Only Allah knows. Love you, Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 06 June 2012 at 3:38pm
	So, Honeto, you believe that it was NOT Jesus who was put on the cross?
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 07 June 2012 at 1:13pm
	Reepicheep, I want to be clear, according to the Quran, God raised him (Jesus pbuh) up to Himself. For me the chapter is closed there. Who was put to the cross, we can discuss that since it was a common method for Romans to kill those condemned to death. So there were so many people who were cursified in those days. It will be hard to get to know each one of thems names. Only Allah knows. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 08 June 2012 at 7:42am
	iec786 wrote: Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this... I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book. Of course I've read the book. I would be quite the fool if I was to make claims about what was in the book, if I hadn't read it. Right? Your recent comment causes me to repeat the comment I made on April 12 within this thread: I suspect you haven't read Deedat's book and have no idea of what it contains, correct? Deedat's book defends the "swoon" theory of the crucifixion, which states in brief: Jesus was crucified on the cross. He sufferred and became unconscious. The Roman soldiers thought he was dead. He was buried in a tomb. Then his disciples came and resuscitated him. I don't see how Deedat's theory can be reconciled with what is written in the koran. And Deedat certainly didn't accept the theory that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus.
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iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 08 June 2012 at 11:21pm
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* iec786 wrote: Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this... I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book. Of course I've read the book. I would be quite the fool if I was to make claims about what was in the book, if I hadn't read it. Right? Your recent comment causes me to repeat the comment I made on April 12 within this thread: I suspect you haven't read Deedat's book and have no idea of what it contains, correct? Deedat's book defends the "swoon" theory of the crucifixion, which states in brief: Jesus was crucified on the cross. He sufferred and became unconscious. The Roman soldiers thought he was dead. He was buried in a tomb. Then his disciples came and resuscitated him. I don't see how Deedat's theory can be reconciled with what is written in the koran. And Deedat certainly didn't accept the theory that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus. The Bible says all his disciples forsook him and fled.Does all mean all in your language?if yes then who seen who on the cross remember all those who swore to die for him forsook him and fled like cowards. And Deedat certainly didn't accept the theory that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus. Deedat never worked with theory he worked with facts.
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 10 June 2012 at 5:08pm
	iec786 wrote: Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this... I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book. iec786 also wrote: Deedat never worked with theory he worked with facts. You seem to be saying that Deedat was telling the truth when he claimed that it WAS Jesus who was arrested by the Romans, put on trial, sentenced to death, put on the cross, declared dead, put into the tomb, and later revived. Correct? But, in your previous post, you stated that it wasn't Jesus but instead Judas who was crucified. How can both these beliefs be true? They contradict each other.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 11 June 2012 at 1:17pm
	I must address this as I have given it quite a lot of study. Here iec786 is asserting that, according to Islam, Judas was crucified in Jesus' place. How does he think this occurred... this substitution? I have had arguments with other Muslims who assert that there was a bar-Jesus that took Jesus' place on the cross, due to Roman error. Anyone who knows anything about Romans, and Roman history, and the Roman military and societal structure, knows that such an error would never happen. It would have cost the soldier his own life to allow such a mistake or substitution, to occur. Romans were not careless in their duties due to the cost to their own lives if they were. Romans were ruthless. As far as witnesses at the cross, Mary the mother of Jesus was there, Mary Magdalene was there... many women were there... 'all the people who had gathered to witness this sight saw what took place'... and so was John whom Jesus gave charge to be as a son to Mary His mother, after His death. "When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold, your son!" The disciples fled yes, at Jesus capture, but no where is there any statement as to whether or not they returned, to watch at a distance, the crucifixion. This matter is not addressed, except in as much as the above statement. We do not know which of them may have been there, aside from 'the disciple whom He loved', assumed to be John. It is sensible to me to assume that they were there. Joseph of Arimathea("a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews") came to claim the body to bury it. How could the disciples not be there to witness the end of one they loved so much... to watch and see how He might be saved at the last minute. The greater testimony is in the crowd of witnesses who saw Jesus after His resurrection. All these reports were never disputed during the time in which they were being written... during the time in which the witnesses would still have been living and well able to make dispute. Addressing the topic of this thread it seems clear to me that Mr Deedat does indeed contradict the teaching of both the Bible and the Qur'an. Edited by Caringheart - 11 June 2012 at 1:23pm
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