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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2012 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by honeto
It is indeed beautiful and moving.
I hope the message is just as beautiful.
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2012 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne

That depends on how you define the scope of your religion.

There is nothing in a muslim's life that is outside the scope of religion. Islam is a lifestyle not restricted to a weekly sunday-service. Even if a muslim uses the washroom with correct etiquette, it becomes an act of worship.

Some Muslims refuse to use tooth brushes and tooth paste and use wood to clean their teeth just like prophet Muhammad did.  Now is cleaning your teeth trivial or not? Should religion focus on this or should it focus on how 7 billion people on a small planet can get along with each other?

I know many Muslims who use a ''miswaak'' but have no issues with modern-day toothpaste. They use modern-day toothbrushes as well as the traditional miswaak during wudhu (ablution).

I don't think dental hygiene is trivial at all. I find it amazing that our religion teaches us dental hygiene as part of religion. Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) said that had he not feared inconvenience for us, he would have made it compulsory for us to brush our teeth in every ablution (wudhu). By making miswaak sunnah, Islam makes brushing our teeth an act of worship, hence rewardworthy, hence motivating muslims to make it a daily regiment. Maybe that's the reason Muslims had all their teeth when non-muslim westerners were using wooden dentures in their youth ;)

The Miswaak is just one example. Islam makes eating, drinking, earning, sex, everything a part of religion.

Also, I don't see how addressing issues such as music, hygiene etc means that Islam cannot or does not focus on issues like bringing 7 billion people together? Religion is not a ''person'' that can only focus on one thing at a time... Religion should/can address everything.

In fact, it is attention to detail and ''little things'' that brings muslims together. Billions of Muslims around the world pray the same way, have the same dietary laws, fast at the same time etc. Things that you term trivial actually brings muslims together and despite having cultural and geographical differences, we still have a sense of togetherness because of shared rituals and values.

The problem of strict orthodox Islam is that it tries to get involved into every minute of a devout Muslim's life and require obedience even if it doesn't make sense in the 21st century.

Just because things don't make sense to you in the 21st century, doesn't mean they don't make sense to the people who follow them. I understand that for many non-muslim men, getting married in their early 20s wouldn't make sense these days... but it makes sense to practicing Muslims. (and many Jews and Christians too I think). For many young girls, covering up and dressing modestly wouldn't make sense... but for others it does. Don't try to trivialise other's principles and values just because you don't understand them.

If we choose to spend every minute of our life according to Islamic principles, so what? Yes, We pray 5 times a day, sometimes more. We have ''prayers'' for everything from looking into the mirror to wearing clothes. Things that may seem ''strict & orthodox'' to you, seem beautiful to me. We do it out of our own free-will and choice.

In an image-conscious, superficial world, every time a Muslim looks into the mirror, he/she is supposed to say ""O Allah, just as You have made my external features beautiful, make my character beautiful as well''. I find that refreshing! ''Little things'' like this remind you and re-focus your mind on whats important.


Just out of curiosity, does Islam encourage or discourage Bach's Brandenburg concertos? What about the Beatles?

Now THAT issue to me is trivial ;). Does it matter what Islam has to say about Bach's concertos or the Beatles? trivial stuff.

Edited by Chrysalis - 28 August 2012 at 12:50pm
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 28 August 2012 at 7:16pm

Originally posted by Chrysalis

If we choose to spend every minute of our life according to Islamic principles, so what? Yes, We pray 5 times a day, sometimes more. We have ''prayers'' for everything from looking into the mirror to wearing clothes. Things that may seem ''strict & orthodox'' to you, seem beautiful to me. We do it out of our own free-will and choice.

What do you mean by "free will"?  Do you truly have a choice, if all your choices are dictated by your religion?  I mean, what if you actually like music, just for its own sake?  Why can't you freely choose something just for your own enjoyment, even if it is "outside the scope of religion"?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 11 September 2012 at 3:59am
Chrysalis, I hope you don't imply that the practice of Christianity is restricted to attending Sunday services. In fact, we can decide whether to pray one time or ten times a day and the prayer involves free will and creativity in our personal conversation with God (not just the mechanical repetition of a predefined texts).

I also noted that you emphasized that it's the 'little things' that brings Muslims together. This is one aspect I find so troubling about Islam. It's all about the Ummah and bringing Muslims together. This approach divides humanity. I have no problem with big things. The birth of Christ brings Christians together. The Lord's Supper brings Christians together. But there are thousands of little things in daily life. If they all are about Islam, how much time is left to interact with the rest of humanity? If religion gets involved in every minute of our lives, it becomes an obsession. When we conduct scientific research this has nothing to do with Islam or Christianity, except perhaps the motivation that we should use our intellect to unravel the mysteries of the world. Science can unity us, therefore I am strictly against the absurd notion of Islamic science or Christian science. There is only one science. And it's universal. And a lot of things in daily life are universal too. A smile is universal. Empathy is universal. Toothbrushes are universal. Even the basic building blocks of music are universal tied to the architecture of our brains.

And now I'm asking you: What do you think about Bach's Brandenburg concertos and the songs of the Beatles such as 'Yesterday'?

Edited by Matt Browne - 11 September 2012 at 4:00am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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