IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Was Islam spread by the sword?

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Chrysalis

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Posted: 22 February 2012 at 11:23pm

Originally posted by Holly3278

Was your thing in the 3rd paragraph where you commented about Christian crusaders in Spain an attack on Christianity? If so, I don't appreciate that. I am a Catholic Christian and just because you are on an Islamic forum doesn't give you a right to attack my religion.

Hi Holly,

I'm sorry that you feel your religion is being attacked. As Muslims, we are forbidden by God to insult other religions.

Crusades and all that happened during is a historic fact - mentioning the Crusades doesn't mean we are attacking Christianity. I assure you that most muslims (including Seekshidayath) do not blame Christians or their religion for the actions of a few in the past.

That said, as far as Christians in Saudi Arabia, if there truly are any Christians in Saudi Arabia then they are there illegally. Christianity is forbidden in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a Muslim nation too and so this speaks as to just how highly the Muslims of Saudi Arabia value religious freedom which apparently they don't value it very much which is very sad. Cry

May I add that Saudia Arabia is just one of the many muslim countries in the world, and they (the Saudi govt or people) don't necessarily represent Islam or all muslims in everything.

Also, there are Christians living in Saudia Arabia - legally. They work there as expatriots and are living comfortable lives. Infact the USA has many bases in the Saudia Arabia too. (I'm assuming they are non-muslims too).

Christanity is not forbidden in Saudia Arabia, however proselytizing Christianity is. It is a conservative country yes, it has its own rules, yes. As do many countries & cities all over the world.

Feel free to comment and/or ask questions! See you around :)

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."

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lady

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Posted: 23 February 2012 at 1:34am

Hello Holly. I just wanted to inform you that I am thinking about moving to Saudi in 8 months for two years for work. In the past month and a half, I have met maybe close to 8 american christians who lived in Saudi for like 2-8 years. And they all said that they loved it too. I did ask some of them how they were treated as Christians and catholics living in Saudi. And they told me that they did not have a problem at all, and they loved it there. I then asked them would they return if they could? And all of them said yes. But the only reason why they came back to the US was because their husbands were able to find more of a stable job here and plus they missed their families in the US.

I lived in Kenya for two years in 2001-2003. And the muslims and the christians respected each other. how? they lived peacefully together in the same village. Also too, they employed each other as well in their own businesses, and they attended school together, and befriended one another. And during the month of Ramadan, the chrisitians would celebrate with the muslims in many ways. If you travel and make friends with people from over the world, then you will see this type of treatment I mentioned above between the muslims and chrisitans occuring many times, and not just on rare occasions.

Edited by lady - 23 February 2012 at 1:35am

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Hughes

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Posted: 23 February 2012 at 8:09am

Originally posted by Chrysalis

Originally posted by Holly3278

Hey everyone. I wasn't sure what forum to put this in so I put it here. Moderators, feel free to move it if you need to.That said, I have heard that Islam was spread by the sword. Is this true?

Hi Holly!Its just a misconception that Islam was spread by the sword. Like Seekshidayath said, if Islam were really spread by the sword we wouldn't find non-muslims living in lands that were for centuries ruled by muslims. (Like India for example).There are Coptic-Christians living to this day in Egypt. Spain is a non-muslim majority, India mostly has Hindus. Did you know the Muslim armies reached the border of France too? Yet we find no accounts of forced conversions etc. The Jewish population in many middle-east countries survived thanks to Muslim rulers who gave them sanctuary during the crusades when even the Jews were targeted. You can even look this up on the internet itself (See: Ottoman Empire, Ottoman Empire & Jews, Ottoman Empire & Non-Muslims)

Just curious, what happens when a Muslim converts to Christianity? Do the other Muslims rejoice for that convert? What exactly is freedom or no compulsion?

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Chrysalis

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Posted: 24 February 2012 at 10:48pm

Originally posted by Hughes

Just curious, what happens when a Muslim converts to Christianity? Do the other Muslims rejoice for that convert? What exactly is freedom or no compulsion?

Freedom and ''no compulsion'' means that nobody is forced or compelled to become a Muslim. God says in the Quran: 'There is no compulsion in religion'.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."" [Quran, Chapter: Baqarah 2:257]

Which is why when people say that "Islam was spread by the sword'" they have no idea what they are talking about.

As for asking whether or not other Muslims rejoice if a Muslim decides to leave Islam... obviously if we Muslims believe that Islam is the truth, and we see somebody leave the folds of Islam it will sadden us. Just like practicing Christians would feel sad if they saw a fellow christian leave Christianity or go join a different sect. Its an understandable human reaction. I don't think Christians, Hindus, Jews or ANY religious community would rejoice if a member of their community decided to leave their religion. So why the focus on us Muslims only?

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."

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Hughes

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Posted: 25 February 2012 at 8:22pm

Originally posted by Chrysalis

Originally posted by Hughes

Just curious, what happens when a Muslim converts to Christianity? Do the other Muslims rejoice for that convert? What exactly is freedom or no compulsion?

Freedom and ''no compulsion'' means that nobody is forced or compelled to become a Muslim. God says in the Quran: 'There is no compulsion in religion'.<span id="verse_263__9_content">"Let there be no compulsion in
religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and
believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that
never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."" [Quran, Chapter: Baqarah 2:257</span>]Which is why when people say that "Islam was spread by the sword'" they have no idea what they are talking about. As for asking whether or not other Muslims rejoice if a Muslim decides to leave Islam... obviously if we Muslims believe that Islam is the truth, and we see somebody leave the folds of Islam it will sadden us. Just like practicing Christians would feel sad if they saw a fellow christian leave Christianity or go join a different sect. Its an understandable human reaction. I don't think Christians, Hindus, Jews or ANY religious community would rejoice if a member of their community decided to leave their religion. So why the focus on us Muslims only?

Why focus on Islam? Main reason is that I have heard that if your son or daughter converts to Christianity, away from Islam, it not only saddens you, but dishonors your family. There are numerous cases where families kill their children who dishonor their family in this way. This doesn't sound like a religion that isn't based on freedom, but compulsion.

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Chrysalis

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Posted: 28 February 2012 at 10:13am

Originally posted by Hughes

Why focus on Islam? Main reason is that I have heard that if your son or daughter converts to Christianity, away from Islam, it not only saddens you, but dishonors your family. There are numerous cases where families kill their children who dishonor their family in this way. This doesn't sound like a religion that isn't based on freedom, but compulsion.

Still doesn't answer the question, why focus on Islam? Have you not heard of Christians or Jews killing people with religious motives? If not, I can direct you to a lot of such instances. That wouldn't make for a very friendly thread though, so I'll desist.

If Islam is not a religion based on freedom, then why do people still convert to it in large numbers? [Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday.

I'll repeat, even practicing Temple/Church/Synagogue going conservative Parents of other religions will also feel 'dishonored' or sad if their child decides to fore go the religion of their ancestors. Its a human tendency. Such cases are not very common in muslim communities. Such conversions are a rarity, and even amongst these cases 'honor killings' taking place are an anomaly... not the norm.

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."

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Hughes

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Posted: 28 February 2012 at 6:50pm

Originally posted by Chrysalis

Still doesn't answer the question, why focus on Islam? Have you not heard of Christians or Jews killing people with religious motives? If not, I can direct you to a lot of such instances. That wouldn't make for a very friendly thread though, so I'll desist. If Islam is not a religion based on freedom, then why do people still convert to it in large numbers? [Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday.<div style="overflow: ; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); : rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: left; text-decoration: none; border: medium none;">Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343336,00.html#ixzz1nhX4xBt7
I'll repeat, even practicing Temple/Church/Synagogue going conservative Parents of other religions will also feel 'dishonored' or sad if their child decides to fore go the religion of their ancestors. Its a human tendency. Such cases are not very common in muslim communities. Such conversions are a rarity, and even amongst these cases 'honor killings' taking place are an anomaly... not the norm.

In Muslim countries (Those countries controlled by Muslims), we find many things that are not peaceful or free. For example, as was mentioned, the idea of honor killings is not found because of Christian ideas, no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another because of honor or dishonor or any belief system. Rather, in Christianity we find freedom and loving even those who we disagree with.

In Stark opposition to this intellectual freedom are many Muslim countries that it's against the law to say anything against Islam or Muhammed, and if one is found guilty of such a crime they are put to death. Now, to the outside world the claims to be free and "no compulsion" are laughable. Because everyone knows that if the governmental laws dictate what people can or cannot say about Islam and Muhammed, it's not freedom we are talking about, it becomes obvious that Islam isn't about peace but control and submission.

Edited by Hughes - 28 February 2012 at 6:54pm

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iec786

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Joined: 06 February 2012
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Posted: 29 February 2012 at 7:48am

Hughes,

Why do you run away from the Holy Bible??????. no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another because of honor or dishonor or any belief system. Rather, in Christianity we find freedom and loving even those who we disagree with.

Here is what your religion says.

APOSTASY : ". . . neither shall thine eye pity him (the apostate),
neither shalt thou spare him, neither shalt thou conceal him:
"But thou shalt SURELY KILL HIM: thine hand shall be first
upon him TO PUT HIM TO DEATH . . ." DEUTRONOMY 13:8,

This is laughable.

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Author	Message
Chrysalis Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2030	Posted: 22 February 2012 at 11:23pm
	*Originally posted by Holly3278* Was your thing in the 3rd paragraph where you commented about Christian crusaders in Spain an attack on Christianity? If so, I don't appreciate that. I am a Catholic Christian and just because you are on an Islamic forum doesn't give you a right to attack my religion. Hi Holly, I'm sorry that you feel your religion is being attacked. As Muslims, we are forbidden by God to insult other religions. Crusades and all that happened during is a historic fact - mentioning the Crusades doesn't mean we are attacking Christianity. I assure you that most muslims (including Seekshidayath) do not blame Christians or their religion for the actions of a few in the past. That said, as far as Christians in Saudi Arabia, if there truly are any Christians in Saudi Arabia then they are there illegally. Christianity is forbidden in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a Muslim nation too and so this speaks as to just how highly the Muslims of Saudi Arabia value religious freedom which apparently they don't value it very much which is very sad. May I add that Saudia Arabia is just one of the many muslim countries in the world, and they (the Saudi govt or people) don't necessarily represent Islam or all muslims in everything. Also, there are Christians living in Saudia Arabia - legally. They work there as expatriots and are living comfortable lives. Infact the USA has many bases in the Saudia Arabia too. (I'm assuming they are non-muslims too). Christanity is not forbidden in Saudia Arabia, however proselytizing Christianity is. It is a conservative country yes, it has its own rules, yes. As do many countries & cities all over the world. Feel free to comment and/or ask questions! See you around :)
	"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
	IP Logged

lady Senior Member Joined: 20 September 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 240	Posted: 23 February 2012 at 1:34am
	Hello Holly. I just wanted to inform you that I am thinking about moving to Saudi in 8 months for two years for work. In the past month and a half, I have met maybe close to 8 american christians who lived in Saudi for like 2-8 years. And they all said that they loved it too. I did ask some of them how they were treated as Christians and catholics living in Saudi. And they told me that they did not have a problem at all, and they loved it there. I then asked them would they return if they could? And all of them said yes. But the only reason why they came back to the US was because their husbands were able to find more of a stable job here and plus they missed their families in the US. I lived in Kenya for two years in 2001-2003. And the muslims and the christians respected each other. how? they lived peacefully together in the same village. Also too, they employed each other as well in their own businesses, and they attended school together, and befriended one another. And during the month of Ramadan, the chrisitians would celebrate with the muslims in many ways. If you travel and make friends with people from over the world, then you will see this type of treatment I mentioned above between the muslims and chrisitans occuring many times, and not just on rare occasions. Edited by lady - 23 February 2012 at 1:35am
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Hughes Guest Group Joined: 31 January 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 69	Posted: 23 February 2012 at 8:09am
	*Originally posted by Chrysalis* *Originally posted by Holly3278* Hey everyone. I wasn't sure what forum to put this in so I put it here. Moderators, feel free to move it if you need to.That said, I have heard that Islam was spread by the sword. Is this true? Hi Holly!Its just a misconception that Islam was spread by the sword. Like Seekshidayath said, if Islam were really spread by the sword we wouldn't find non-muslims living in lands that were for centuries ruled by muslims. (Like India for example).There are Coptic-Christians living to this day in Egypt. Spain is a non-muslim majority, India mostly has Hindus. Did you know the Muslim armies reached the border of France too? Yet we find no accounts of forced conversions etc. The Jewish population in many middle-east countries survived thanks to Muslim rulers who gave them sanctuary during the crusades when even the Jews were targeted. You can even look this up on the internet itself (See: Ottoman Empire, Ottoman Empire & Jews, Ottoman Empire & Non-Muslims) Just curious, what happens when a Muslim converts to Christianity? Do the other Muslims rejoice for that convert? What exactly is freedom or no compulsion?
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Chrysalis Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2030	Posted: 24 February 2012 at 10:48pm
	*Originally posted by Hughes* Just curious, what happens when a Muslim converts to Christianity? Do the other Muslims rejoice for that convert? What exactly is freedom or no compulsion? Freedom and ''no compulsion'' means that nobody is forced or compelled to become a Muslim. God says in the Quran: 'There is no compulsion in religion'. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."" [Quran, Chapter: Baqarah 2:257] Which is why when people say that "Islam was spread by the sword'" they have no idea what they are talking about. As for asking whether or not other Muslims rejoice if a Muslim decides to leave Islam... obviously if we Muslims believe that Islam is the truth, and we see somebody leave the folds of Islam it will sadden us. Just like practicing Christians would feel sad if they saw a fellow christian leave Christianity or go join a different sect. Its an understandable human reaction. I don't think Christians, Hindus, Jews or ANY religious community would rejoice if a member of their community decided to leave their religion. So why the focus on us Muslims only?
	"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
	IP Logged

Hughes Guest Group Joined: 31 January 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 69	Posted: 25 February 2012 at 8:22pm
	*Originally posted by Chrysalis* *Originally posted by Hughes* Just curious, what happens when a Muslim converts to Christianity? Do the other Muslims rejoice for that convert? What exactly is freedom or no compulsion? Freedom and ''no compulsion'' means that nobody is forced or compelled to become a Muslim. God says in the Quran: 'There is no compulsion in religion'.<span id="verse_263__9_content">"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."" [Quran, Chapter: Baqarah 2:257</span>]Which is why when people say that "Islam was spread by the sword'" they have no idea what they are talking about. As for asking whether or not other Muslims rejoice if a Muslim decides to leave Islam... obviously if we Muslims believe that Islam is the truth, and we see somebody leave the folds of Islam it will sadden us. Just like practicing Christians would feel sad if they saw a fellow christian leave Christianity or go join a different sect. Its an understandable human reaction. I don't think Christians, Hindus, Jews or ANY religious community would rejoice if a member of their community decided to leave their religion. So why the focus on us Muslims only? Why focus on Islam? Main reason is that I have heard that if your son or daughter converts to Christianity, away from Islam, it not only saddens you, but dishonors your family. There are numerous cases where families kill their children who dishonor their family in this way. This doesn't sound like a religion that isn't based on freedom, but compulsion.
	IP Logged

Chrysalis Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2030	Posted: 28 February 2012 at 10:13am
	*Originally posted by Hughes* Why focus on Islam? Main reason is that I have heard that if your son or daughter converts to Christianity, away from Islam, it not only saddens you, but dishonors your family. There are numerous cases where families kill their children who dishonor their family in this way. This doesn't sound like a religion that isn't based on freedom, but compulsion. Still doesn't answer the question, why focus on Islam? Have you not heard of Christians or Jews killing people with religious motives? If not, I can direct you to a lot of such instances. That wouldn't make for a very friendly thread though, so I'll desist. If Islam is not a religion based on freedom, then why do people still convert to it in large numbers? [Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday. Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343336,00.html#ixzz1nhX4xBt7] I'll repeat, even practicing Temple/Church/Synagogue going conservative Parents of other religions will also feel 'dishonored' or sad if their child decides to fore go the religion of their ancestors. Its a human tendency. Such cases are not very common in muslim communities. Such conversions are a rarity, and even amongst these cases 'honor killings' taking place are an anomaly... not the norm.
	"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
	IP Logged

Hughes Guest Group Joined: 31 January 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 69	Posted: 28 February 2012 at 6:50pm
	*Originally posted by Chrysalis* Still doesn't answer the question, why focus on Islam? Have you not heard of Christians or Jews killing people with religious motives? If not, I can direct you to a lot of such instances. That wouldn't make for a very friendly thread though, so I'll desist. If Islam is not a religion based on freedom, then why do people still convert to it in large numbers? [Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday.<div style="overflow: ; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); : rgb(255, 255, 255); text-align: left; text-decoration: none; border: medium none;">Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343336,00.html#ixzz1nhX4xBt7 I'll repeat, even practicing Temple/Church/Synagogue going conservative Parents of other religions will also feel 'dishonored' or sad if their child decides to fore go the religion of their ancestors. Its a human tendency. Such cases are not very common in muslim communities. Such conversions are a rarity, and even amongst these cases 'honor killings' taking place are an anomaly... not the norm. In Muslim countries (Those countries controlled by Muslims), we find many things that are not peaceful or free. For example, as was mentioned, the idea of honor killings is not found because of Christian ideas, no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another because of honor or dishonor or any belief system. Rather, in Christianity we find freedom and loving even those who we disagree with. In Stark opposition to this intellectual freedom are many Muslim countries that it's against the law to say anything against Islam or Muhammed, and if one is found guilty of such a crime they are put to death. Now, to the outside world the claims to be free and "no compulsion" are laughable. Because everyone knows that if the governmental laws dictate what people can or cannot say about Islam and Muhammed, it's not freedom we are talking about, it becomes obvious that Islam isn't about peace but control and submission. Edited by Hughes - 28 February 2012 at 6:54pm
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iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 29 February 2012 at 7:48am
	Hughes, Why do you run away from the Holy Bible??????. no where does Jesus or any Christian say to kill another because of honor or dishonor or any belief system. Rather, in Christianity we find freedom and loving even those who we disagree with. Here is what your religion says. APOSTASY : ". . . neither shall thine eye pity him (the apostate), neither shalt thou spare him, neither shalt thou conceal him: "But thou shalt SURELY KILL HIM: thine hand shall be first upon him TO PUT HIM TO DEATH . . ." DEUTRONOMY 13:8, This is laughable.
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