IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Sign of Allah in birds

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nothing

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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 7:43pm

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by samirfaithful

Allah says in the Holy Quran:

"Do they not see the birds suspended in mid-air up in the sky? Nothing holds them there except Allah. There are certainly Signs in that for people who have faith." (Surat an-Nahl: 79)

Sorry Muhammad, but this is dead wrong. We know perfectly well what holds the bird up in the air. It is not Allah. It is the air itself. Not only do we thoroughly understand how it is done, we can even do it ourselves -- no supernatural intervention required.

So much for "Quranic science".

Actually in the Qur'an it states all from Allah by Allah, including the Devil's ability. Put it simply it claims everything.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 8:09pm

Originally posted by nothing

Actually in the Qur'an it states all from Allah by Allah, including the Devil's ability. Put it simply it claims everything.

... which is the most anti-science attitude imaginable. Why bother looking for a rational explanation for anything, if the answer is always going to be "the will of Allah"?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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nothing

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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 8:37pm

Originally posted by Ron Webb

... which is the most anti-science attitude imaginable. Why bother looking for a rational explanation for anything, if the answer is always going to be "the will of Allah"?

The Qur'an has plenty statements asking the readers to ponder over things, and that what the OP post is all about, responding to it.

Edited by nothing - 20 September 2012 at 8:39pm

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 21 September 2012 at 4:32am

Well, if "pondering" does not mean seeking a rational explanation for things, then this discussion does not belong in Science and Technology. On the other hand, if it does, then it's worth noting that the Quran is factually wrong when it says that nothing holds up the birds besides Allah.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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nothing

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Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:10am

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Well, if "pondering" does not mean seeking a rational explanation for things, then this discussion does not belong in Science and Technology. On the other hand, if it does, then it's worth noting that the Quran is factually wrong when it says that nothing holds up the birds besides Allah.

Well if that is the case you only need to convince him with what your ability to discuss that his science is not science. The other alternative is by asking the moderator to move his title somewhere else suitable according to you.
But I think it is better of if you discus it with him as what is science and what is not.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 24 September 2012 at 4:31pm

If I have to explain that "pondering over things" is not science, then I give up.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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bunter
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Posted: 04 October 2012 at 2:19am

I have trouble with some of the arguments presented here. For example, what about say the small pox virus, has Allah made it to be ideally suited to live in the human body and kill people?

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Matt Browne
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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 6:48am

Originally posted by Ron Webb

...
"Do they not see the birds suspended in mid-air up in the sky? Nothing holds them there except Allah. There are certainly Signs in that for people who have faith." (Surat an-Nahl: 79)

The "nothing holds them there" part reflects the fact that all holy texts are in fact written by human beings, speculating about what God would say if we were able to listen to him directly (which we are not). Only very progressive Muslims are able to admit this: The Quran reflects the knowledge of 7th century Arabia. Most Muslims on Islamicity find this totally shocking. Like Creationists find it shocking what Darwin found out.

However, there is a way to view Allah as the ultimate explanation for holding the bird up in the air. The bird is the result of evolution. The air on Earth is a product of our planet's formation. Life is a result of chemistry. The elements are a result of stellar nucleosynthesis. Stars are a result of inflation, quantum fluctuations and gravitation after the birth of our universe. How do we explain the universe? Maybe a multiverse. How do we explain the multiverse? How do we explain the explanation of the multiverse? There are two options for the ultimate explanation. God or 'some things just are'. Take your pick. If one believes in God, then God is the explanation for the bird and the air that holds the bird.

Edited by Matt Browne - 09 October 2012 at 6:52am

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Author	Message
nothing Senior Member Joined: 09 November 2008 Location: Andorra Online Status: Offline Posts: 360	Posted: 20 September 2012 at 7:43pm
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* *Originally posted by samirfaithful* Allah says in the Holy Quran: "Do they not see the birds suspended in mid-air up in the sky? Nothing holds them there except Allah. There are certainly Signs in that for people who have faith." (Surat an-Nahl: 79) Sorry Muhammad, but this is dead wrong. We know perfectly well what holds the bird up in the air. It is not Allah. It is the air itself. Not only do we thoroughly understand how it is done, we can even do it ourselves -- no supernatural intervention required. So much for "Quranic science". Actually in the Qur'an it states all from Allah by Allah, including the Devil's ability. Put it simply it claims everything.
	IP Logged

Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 20 September 2012 at 8:09pm
	*Originally posted by nothing* Actually in the Qur'an it states all from Allah by Allah, including the Devil's ability. Put it simply it claims everything. ... which is the most anti-science attitude imaginable. Why bother looking for a rational explanation for anything, if the answer is always going to be "the will of Allah"?
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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nothing Senior Member Joined: 09 November 2008 Location: Andorra Online Status: Offline Posts: 360	Posted: 20 September 2012 at 8:37pm
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* ... which is the most anti-science attitude imaginable. Why bother looking for a rational explanation for anything, if the answer is always going to be "the will of Allah"? The Qur'an has plenty statements asking the readers to ponder over things, and that what the OP post is all about, responding to it. Edited by nothing - 20 September 2012 at 8:39pm
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 21 September 2012 at 4:32am
	Well, if "pondering" does not mean seeking a rational explanation for things, then this discussion does not belong in Science and Technology. On the other hand, if it does, then it's worth noting that the Quran is factually wrong when it says that nothing holds up the birds besides Allah.
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
	IP Logged

nothing Senior Member Joined: 09 November 2008 Location: Andorra Online Status: Offline Posts: 360	Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:10am
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* Well, if "pondering" does not mean seeking a rational explanation for things, then this discussion does not belong in Science and Technology. On the other hand, if it does, then it's worth noting that the Quran is factually wrong when it says that nothing holds up the birds besides Allah. Well if that is the case you only need to convince him with what your ability to discuss that his science is not science. The other alternative is by asking the moderator to move his title somewhere else suitable according to you. But I think it is better of if you discus it with him as what is science and what is not.
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 24 September 2012 at 4:31pm
	If I have to explain that "pondering over things" is not science, then I give up.
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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bunter Male Senior Member Joined: 28 March 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 123	Posted: 04 October 2012 at 2:19am
	I have trouble with some of the arguments presented here. For example, what about say the small pox virus, has Allah made it to be ideally suited to live in the human body and kill people?
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Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 09 October 2012 at 6:48am
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* ... "Do they not see the birds suspended in mid-air up in the sky? Nothing holds them there except Allah. There are certainly Signs in that for people who have faith." (Surat an-Nahl: 79) Sorry Muhammad, but this is dead wrong. We know perfectly well what holds the bird up in the air. It is not Allah. It is the air itself. Not only do we thoroughly understand how it is done, we can even do it ourselves -- no supernatural intervention required. So much for "Quranic science". The "nothing holds them there" part reflects the fact that all holy texts are in fact written by human beings, speculating about what God would say if we were able to listen to him directly (which we are not). Only very progressive Muslims are able to admit this: The Quran reflects the knowledge of 7th century Arabia. Most Muslims on Islamicity find this totally shocking. Like Creationists find it shocking what Darwin found out. However, there is a way to view Allah as the ultimate explanation for holding the bird up in the air. The bird is the result of evolution. The air on Earth is a product of our planet's formation. Life is a result of chemistry. The elements are a result of stellar nucleosynthesis. Stars are a result of inflation, quantum fluctuations and gravitation after the birth of our universe. How do we explain the universe? Maybe a multiverse. How do we explain the multiverse? How do we explain the explanation of the multiverse? There are two options for the ultimate explanation. God or 'some things just are'. Take your pick. If one believes in God, then God is the explanation for the bird and the air that holds the bird. Edited by Matt Browne - 09 October 2012 at 6:52am
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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