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Quran & Sunnah
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A-Tirawi
 
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2005 at 10:31am

Nausheeh

You are 100% correct in your assement.  I have to be honest in saying i do not know anything about this number 19.  This is the first time i have ever heard of it.  But i have heard some other mathimatical miracles of the Quran and i have checked them out and they are to be true.  Now will this get be into heaven?  Of course not, but from time to to time when one has that atom weight of doubt, looking at the mere perfection of the Quran (in every sense of the word perfection), one can not help but say Subhan Allah, Alhamdulillah.  It is easy to say this book is perfect, then you read it and say yes it is perfect, and mathematically it is perfect.  Its just supportive material.

But again, i agree with you that we should busy ourselves with worship but we trying to understand the Quran is a form of worship. 

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bullet Posted: 26 March 2005 at 12:55pm
OK, so please consider the following.

The Shepherd’s Monument - The Temple Mount - the Haram-
esh-Sharif

One of Herod's greatest building projects was in Jerusalem. He
wanted to enlarge and embellish the Temple, but the mountain
on which Solomon had built the First Temple and on which
Zachariah and Haggai had built the Second was just too small
for his plans. That didn't stop Herod. He dramatically increased
the size of the Temple Mount by constructing huge encasement
walls creating a large trapezoid. He then proceeded with his
architectural plans to enlarge the Temple and its courtyards.

Herod protected the Temple Mount with a large military fortress
called Antonia, honoring Mark Antony. He protected the
western entrance of Jerusalem (and, incidentally, his villa
situated there) with a huge tri-towered fortress called the
Citadel. The Citadel loomed over the wealthy part of town,
called the Upper City. And a reference in the The Standard
Jewish Encyclopedia published in 1966 by W. H. Allan, and on
page 1,806 there is a description of the Herodian wall
surrounding Temple Mount, with the north wall measures 913
feet, the south wall 1,050 feet, the east wall 1,515 feet, and the
west wall 1,586 feet, a perimeter length of 5,064 feet.

"Glory be to Him who did take His servant for a Journey by
night from the Sacred Sanctuary to the farthest Sanctuary,
whose precincts We did bless...." (TheKoran, Sura Al-Isra’ 17:1)

The Temple Mount (Heb., Har Habayit; Arabic, Haram esh-
Sharif, the Noble Sanctuary),is identified in both Jewish and
Islamic tradition as the area of Mount Moriah where Abraham
offered up his son in sacrifice (Genesis 22:1-18; the Koran,
Sura Al-Saffat 37:102-110). Here King Solomon built the First
Temple almost 3,000 years ago. It was destroyed by the
Babylonians in 586 BCE, but 70 years later Jews returning from
exile built the Second Temple on the same site. King Herod
refashioned it into an edifice of great splendor. In Muslim
tradition, the place is also identified as the "furthermost
sanctuary" (Arabic, masjid al-aksa) from which the Prophet
Mohammed, accompanied by the Angel Gabriel, made the
Night Journey to the Throne of God (The Koran, Sura Al-Isra’
17:1).

Following the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in the
year 70, the area of the Temple was deliberately left in ruins
(first by the Romans, then by the Byzantines). This desecration
was not redressed until the Muslim conquest of the city by the
Caliph Omar ibn al-Khattab in 638. He ordered the clearing of
the site and the building of a "house of prayer". Some 50 years
later, the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik built the Dome of the
Rock to enshrine the outcrop of bedrock believed to be the
"place of the sacrifice" on Mount Moriah. He (or his son, the
Caliph al-Walid I) also built the large mosque at the southern
end of the Haram, which came to be called al-Aksa after the
Koranic name attributed to the entire area.

The Dome of the Rock (Arabic, Qubbat al-Sakhra) is one of the
architectural glories of the world, and the only early Islamic
sanctuary to have survived intact. The design of the building is
basically Byzantine - double octagonal ambulatories encircling
the Holy Rock. A shrine and not a mosque, it is the third holiest
place in Islam after the Ka’aba in Mecca and the Prophet’s
Mosque in Medina.

Thus the Temple Mount area of some 36.8 acreas is
‘controlled’ and ‘protected’ by King Herod’s measurements of
913 feet, 1,050 feet, 1,515 feet, and the west wall of 1,586 feet,
a perimeter length of 5,064 feet.

I was intrigued by the challenge thrown down to all by Mr Oliver
Lawn (once of Bletchley Park, the famous British war time
decoding centre) for someone to solve the mystery of the
lettering ‘D. M. - O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.’ carved on the Shepherd’s
Monument in the gardens of Shugborough House,
Staffordshire, England. So I began by establishing their value
using the standard numerical code for letters in Greek and
Hebrew. Over the years I noticed that ancient architects, and
later the European artists, often ensured there was a
‘measurement message’ in their work, a message read only by
those who knew the number code.

Thus the lettering and inscription carved on the Shepherd’s
Monument in the gardens of Shugborough House has the
number values, that of ‘O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V’ at 1721 + the Old
English at ‘O.V.O.F.U.A.U.U.’ at 1427 + D.M. at 44 and the
reference for ‘ET IN ARCADIA EGO’ is 445,

And add together ‘O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V’ at 1721 +
‘O.V.O.F.U.A.U.U.’ at 1427 and + again ‘O.V.O.F.U.A.U.U.’ at
1427 + D.M. at 44 and the + the reference for ‘ET IN ARCADIA
EGO’ at 445 totals 5064, and as feet is the 5064 feet, the
perimeter of the holy Islamic and Jewish site of Temple Mount.

So the decoding of the Shepherd’s Monument could be that of
Temple Moumt, Jerusalem, the most sacred place in the world.

"Ignorance is no refuge"
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Suleyman
 
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2005 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by A-Tirawi

Originally posted by MOCKBA

 

The number of 19 or multiples of the number of 19 are NOT used to form and fashion the Qur'aan.

There are some deviant groups emphasizing on "mathematical miracles" of the Qur'aan (something like "if you add this and subtract the sum of thats dividing it into half and look at the resulting number's reflection in the mirror... you'll be amazed at how truly miraculous Qur'aan is", or "if you look at the frequency at which this word is repeated and occurrence of its antonym and make their total - you will have 365, which equals the number of days in a year..."). 

That's mere rubbish, and such theories are not anywhere close to the main message and purpose of the Qur'aan... which is not in numbers. Don't waste time on them.

MOCKBA

Mokba

in your response you called these people deviants that look to spend there time understanding the Qurans Miracle. These mathimatical perfection are very important, imho, in showing that Quran is not merely a book of no contradictions and life lessons.  Its the PERFECT BOOK written by the PERFECT.  And so how do we measure this?  Well we do this with what is the only thing that is perfect in this world -- mathamatics.  This is a language that is totally universal and unchanged.  1+1 can nver =3 

I have to admit, there r probably some scam artists out there, but the one i know to be true to his words and a scholar in every sense of the word is Imam Dr. Tariq Al Sweidan. 

Here is a link for you to check out on it!

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/MIQ/stat.ht ml

I hope u find it to be enlightening

 

 

 Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

 Brother i respect your admire to Islam with your sincere feelings to knowing that this religion is respect,maash'Allah.Brother,but there is a problem coming from the system of giving meanings to the numbers in the Qur'an...

 Let me tell you the problem in short words.If we give meanings to the numbers from the way which Allah and the last prophet did not teach us without knowing their objectivity it will cause some problems,for example you use numbers and put a description to the court then in the conditions and in the the time periods it will amaze the persons with saying that Qur'an is perfect;of course it is perfect;but what about a another example comes from the numbers or comes from the reality contradicts with the number's result or what about if the number's result will not be true,not happens.It will cause a serious problem that a person comes and claims that Qur'an is not an perfect book then you will find no words to say and this will be great shame for us while Allah and the last prophet including His companions that they proved and gave effort to the success of the religion and it's perfectivity....this is the problem i have tried to say,it is dangerous.May be we can find some resolutions from the Qur'an with the numbers;but it is not in the priorities and we should not take a risk,no need while we did not pass the seen way in the ayats and trying to finding the unseen parts,this is so comic....Wa Salaam...

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defenders
 
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bullet Posted: 05 April 2005 at 5:27am

Hi ALL.

Not all mathematical miracle involve 19

Let's learn how SHALAT, Qur'an and DHIKR make their own chain in Mathematical Miracle.

Please visit: http://numerical19.tripod.com/dhikr_and_19.htm

 17

The repetition of reciting Al-Fatihah /day is paralelel to the numbers of raka'ats /day. 17 - 17.
If you multiply 17 to 17, it will give you 289 which is the Numerical Value of "ALLAHU AKBAR".
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
It's not only the numbers of the repetition is the same as Raka'ats per day, 17 it-self represent Al-Fatihah,
where 1 is the surah number, and 7 is the numbers of verses
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Please remember that:
17  is PRIME number no 7 and ODD number no 9
If you add this numbers, you will find the DHIKR number.
17 + 7 + 9  = 33
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
7 is PRIME number no 4 and ODD number no 4
If you add this numbers, you will find raka'ats in Friday.
7 + 4 + 4 = 15
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
7 verses repeated 17 times a day. Means, 7 x 17 = 119 ......1 -- 19
Basmalah is verse no.1 in surah Al-Fatihah. This verse has 19 Arabic letters.
Visit: http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p4_01.php
  ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Surah 1 = 7 verses. Surah 7 = 206 verses. If you add all of this numbers, you will find it divisible by 17
1 + 7 + 7 + 206= 221 = 17 x 13.0000 --- and 13 is ODD number no  7
  ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Surah 17 has 111 verses. If you subtract 111 to 17, you'll find the repetition of ALLAHU AKBAR / day.
111 -
17  = 94
  ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Surah 17 also related to shalaat. Why? because surah 17 is Al-Isra (The Night Journey)
Where the Prophet Muhammad (saw) commanded by ALLAH the Almighty to perform shalaat 5 TIMES a day.
read: http://www.noblesanctuary.com/miraj.html
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
Surah 17 verse 1 is the confirmation by ALLAH about the truth of the Journey
171 = 19 x 9.0000
"
Glory to (Allah) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things)."
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------
The Numerical Value of SHALAAT

 Shad = 90    Lam= 30   Alif = 1   Ta = 400
90 + 30 + 1 + 400 =
521
521
17  
= 19 x 2743.0000

------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------
94

 Have you ever think that 94  is the EVEN number no 47 which is the number of surah "MUHAMMAD"?
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
47 Is PRIME no 15 which is raka'ats shalaat on Friday
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
Surah 15   has 99  verses which is 33(repetition) x 3 (dhikr words)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
47 -  17  = 30 which is  EVEN number no 15
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
94 x 5 (times / day) = 470 which is 47 x 10
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
94 + 5 (times / day) = 99 which is  33(repetition) x 3 (dhikr words)
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
Beside reciting Allahu Akbar, Muslims also have to recite "Al-Fatihah" in every raka'at.
 And the first word of Al-Fatihah is Basmalah which is consists of
19 Arabic letters.

What is the relation between  94 and Basmalah?
Multiply
94 to 19
And the RESULT is :
1786
Al-Fatihah is surah no 1 in Al-Qur'an. And 786 is the TOTAL Numerical Value of Basmalah.
Visit: 
http://fakir60.tripod.com/mathematical_design_of_the_basma1. htm

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
That's not enough. We found 17 & 86
How many verses is surah 86  ? 17 verses
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
If you add 94 to , 17 it will give you 111
Surah
17  has 111 verses.
And how many verses is surah
111  ? 5 verses which is equal to  5 times shalaat / day.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
Again, 94 + 17 = 111
Surah
17  has 111 verses.
Please open your AL-Qur'an and find that in Surah 17 verses 111 (the last surah) you will find a word:
TAKBIR (
ÊóßúÈöíÑð )
What is  TAKBIIR ? Takbiir is Saying "Allahu Akbar" (Allah is the Greatest).
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
How many verses is surah 94?-- 8 verses. If you add 94 to 8, it will give you 102 which is divisible by 17
102 = 17 x 6.0000
How many verses is surah 102?-- 8 verses. If you subtract 102 to 8, it will make it back to 94.

------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------------------
33
 
33 is much related to raka'ats /day.
Because
33 is ODD number no. 17

Surah 33 has 73 verses. 3373 is prime 476, which is divisible by 17
476 = 17 x 28.0000
4 + 7 + 6 = 17

187

The first DHIKR opened by Subhanallah which is it's Numerical Value is 187.
187 is divisible by 17
187 / 17  = 11 ---And is 11 PRIME number no 5

 In ONE day, Muslims recite 94 times "Allahu Akbar" in their 5 times Shalaat.
187 is ODD number no 94

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
148

What is the relation of this number to shalaat? just add this number to the raka'ats / day.

148 + 17 = 165
= The Numerical Value of Laa ilaha illallah

148 is even number no 74. Surah 74 is where we can find the word "NINETEEN".

148 + 187 = 335
33 is the repetition of DHIKR, 5 is the times Muslims shalaat / day
33 x  5 =
165
=
The Numerical Value of Laa ilaha illallah

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
289

289 is also the Numerical Value of Ar - Rahiim (Most Merciful)--
visit:
http://fakir60.tripod.com/mathematical_design_of_the_basma1. htm
289 is divisible by 17
  = 289 =17 x 17

 Muslims  recite ALLAHU AKBAR 94 times
289 94 = 19 x 1526.0000

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
 Subhanallah (187) 33 times Al Hamdu lillaah (148) 33
times
  Allahu Akbar (289) 33 times Laa ilaha illallah (165) 1 times

In one day, one word repeated 33 times and 1 time / Salaat. There are 5 times of Salaat / day.

Subhanallah -----187 x 33 x 5 = 30855
Al Hamdu lillaah -----148 x 33
x 5 = 24420
 Allahu Akbar -----289 x 33
x 5 = 47685
Laa ilaha illallah -----165 x 1 x 5 = 825

30855 +24420+ 47685+ 825=103785

There are 17 raka'ats* / day

103785 / 17 = 6105

6105 is divisible by 33
6105 / 33  = 185

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
165
The Numerical Value of Laa ilaha illallah

This is so INTERESTING.

165 is divisible by 33.
165
: 33 = 5
5 is the times we pray (shalat) each day.

OR
The repetition of DHIKR is 33 times each word after EACH Shalat (prayer).
There are 5 times shalat / day. That'll make it 33 x 5 =
165  

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
For those calculation above, we use division and multiplication.
Now we try Subtraction.

165 - 33 = 132
How about 132? This is the Numerical Value of ISLAM
ISLAM = Alif, Sin, Lam, Alif, Mim = 1 + 60 + 30 + 1 + 40= 132
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
3 words repeated 33 times = 33 x 3 = 99 The Numerical Value of   Laa ilaha illallah  = 165

165 - 99 = 66
 (66 = the Numerical Value of ALLAH)

Or,
The 99 The Most Beautiful Names of ALLAH + The Numerical Value of ALLAH (66)
= The Numerical Value of Laa ilaha illallah

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------
Updated: 24  March 2005
Muslims pray 17 RAKA'AH / day.
Subtract 165 to the numbers of raka'ah / day. The result is the Numerical Value of Alhamdulillah.
165 - 17 =
148
(Numerical Value of Al-hamdulillah)

 

http://www.islamdefenders.com/911/Index_911.htm --No Muslims involved in 9-11 attacks.
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blond
 
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bullet Posted: 05 April 2005 at 7:02am
Originally posted by Suleyman

[QUOTE=A-Tirawi][QUOTE=MOCKBA]

 

The number of 19 or multiples of the number of 19 are NOT used to form and fashion the Qur'aan.

There are some deviant groups emphasizing on "mathematical miracles" of the Qur'aan (something like "if you add this and subtract the sum of thats dividing it into half and look at the resulting number's reflection in the mirror... you'll be amazed at how truly miraculous Qur'aan is", or "if you look at the frequency at which this word is repeated and occurrence of its antonym and make their total - you will have 365, which equals the number of days in a year..."). 

That's mere rubbish, and such theories are not anywhere close to the main message and purpose of the Qur'aan... which is not in numbers. Don't waste time on them.

MOCKBA

This is interesting.

74:30. Over it are nineteen.

31. And We have made none but angels wardens of the Fire, and We have not made their number but as a trial for those who disbelieve, that those who have been given the Book may be certain and those who believe may increase in faith, and those who have been given the Book and the believers may not doubt; and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the disbelievers may say: What does Allah mean by this parable? Thus Allah leaves in error whom He pleases, and guides whom He pleases. And none knows the hosts of thy Lord but He. And this is naught but a Reminder to morals.

 

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defenders
 
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bullet Posted: 05 April 2005 at 8:30am
Originally posted by blond

Originally posted by Suleyman

[QUOTE=A-Tirawi][QUOTE=MOCKBA]

 

The number of 19 or multiples of the number of 19 are NOT used to form and fashion the Qur'aan.

There are some deviant groups emphasizing on "mathematical miracles" of the Qur'aan (something like "if you add this and subtract the sum of thats dividing it into half and look at the resulting number's reflection in the mirror... you'll be amazed at how truly miraculous Qur'aan is", or "if you look at the frequency at which this word is repeated and occurrence of its antonym and make their total - you will have 365, which equals the number of days in a year..."). 

That's mere rubbish, and such theories are not anywhere close to the main message and purpose of the Qur'aan... which is not in numbers. Don't waste time on them.

MOCKBA

This is interesting.

74:30. Over it are nineteen.

31. And We have made none but angels wardens of the Fire, and We have not made their number but as a trial for those who disbelieve, that those who have been given the Book may be certain and those who believe may increase in faith, and those who have been given the Book and the believers may not doubt; and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the disbelievers may say: What does Allah mean by this parable? Thus Allah leaves in error whom He pleases, and guides whom He pleases. And none knows the hosts of thy Lord but He. And this is naught but a Reminder to morals.

 

'ndeed. Number 19 is coded in Al-Qur'an.
http://www.islamdefenders.com/911/Index_911.htm --No Muslims involved in 9-11 attacks.
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Alwardah
 
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bullet Posted: 05 April 2005 at 12:19pm

As Salamu Alaikum

Sori I don't get this (post from Defenders)

 

Who assigned the numerical numbers or how are numerical numbers assigned to words of Dhikr etc like the quote below

 

The repetition of reciting Al-Fatihah /day is paralelel to the numbers of raka'ats /day. 17 - 17.
If you multiply 17 to 17, it will give you 289 which is the Numerical Value of "ALLAHU AKBAR".

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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MOCKBA
 
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bullet Posted: 05 April 2005 at 11:25pm

If I cut one finger I will have 19 in total... or if i lift one finger as i pronounce tashahhud during my prayer 19 remain resting in their place...  should that make me re-consider studying "cryptographic" message of the Qur'aan with number 19 being it's foundation?

The number of heavens mixed with the number of brothers multiplied by the number of prayers has produced quite a "colorful cocktail" in one of the responses of this thread.

(Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth, guessing at the unseen; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say (O Muhammad): "My Lord knows best their number; none knows them but a few." So debate not (about their number, etc.) except with the clear proof (which We have revealed to you). And consult not any of them (people of the Scripture, Jews and Christians) about (the affair of) the people of the Cave. [al-Kahf:22]

Dear brothers and sisters in Islaam, especially those gifted with mathematical talents, i invite you to "decode" yourselves and spend time doing something more productive, watering plants or smth.

Qur'aan is a miracle and no genuine Muslim has any doubts over that...  nobody has to repeat this 19 times to get the message across.

MOCKBA



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