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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: WHO IS OR WHAT THE COMFORTER? (FOR KISH) Post Reply Post New Topic
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truthnowcome
 
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 07 February 2012 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Hughes

Thanks Truthnowcome, and peace to you.

Now, it's curious you didn't attempt to explain the contradiction between John 15 and 14?

What do you make of Jesus' statement that he will send the comforter? What was the author's original intent in writing it, how did he intend it to be understood?
<>

Peace my friend!

Now we are getting somewhere, good point! If you follow all my reply to Mr. Kish you will recognize that Jesus (S) is not God; and if he is not God how could he send the comforter? He can’t! He prayed and asks God Almighty for another comforter to come and God Almighty assure him of his (the other Comforter) coming. Remember he said: “For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.”?  (John 12:49)

God Almighty assure him that the other comforter will come but with a “condition”, and that is, He has to go before the Comforter comes:

“Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart, I will send him unto you.!” (John 16:7)

When informing the disciples of the condition he said: “I will send him unto you”. That would mean at his arrival in Heaven would indicate the readiness for the other Comforter to come because is the Father (God Almighty) who will give them the Comforter, and the one who will give them ins the one who will send him.

 

I will give you an example: Remember the story when Jesus (S) told a man he becomes hold and his sin is forgiven? Does that mean Jesus (S) forgive sins? No! It is only God Almighty who forgives sins.

Jesus (S) said: “I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.” (John.5:30)

 

Same with the disciples:

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

 23Whose soever sins ye ( the disciples) remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.(John 22:21-23)

Can the disciples remit sins? No! It is God Almighty who remits sins.

 

Br. zainool

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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Quote Hughes Replybullet Posted: 07 February 2012 at 7:36pm
When informing the disciples of the condition he said: “I will send him unto you”. That would mean at his arrival in Heaven would indicate the readiness for the other Comforter to come because is the Father (God Almighty) who will give them the Comforter, and the one who will give them ins the one who will send him.(John 16:7)


So, it appears that you resolve the apparent conflict between John 14 and 15, by claiming that (A) Jesus wasn't God, and (B) that Jesus wasn't claiming to *actually* be sending the Comforter himself.

Now, it's interesting, because the phrase is clear, "I will send..." And it's not just stated once, but twice, and in the 61 other times this exact phrase is used in the Bible, it never once means, I am actually not sending, but someone else is sending, rather, it means exactly what it says. Jesus is actually sending the comforter.

So, unless you have more information to bring to the table, it is pretty clear and straight forward, based on these texts, Jesus is claiming to be the sender.

As to your claim that Jesus wasn't God, that too isn't supported by the biblical text.


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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 08 February 2012 at 10:50am
As to your claim that Jesus wasn't God, that too isn't supported by the biblical text. ?????????


Where in the Bible does Jesus say that i am God or where Jesus says worship me.?????
Give one unequivocal statement from your Bible any version.
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Quote Hughes Replybullet Posted: 09 February 2012 at 9:25am
Originally posted by iec786

As to your claim that Jesus wasn't God, that too isn't supported by the biblical text. ?????????


Where in the Bible does Jesus say that i am God or where Jesus says worship me.?????
Give one unequivocal statement from your Bible any version.


John 8:58 " 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds." (NIV)

Rev. 22: 12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." (NIV)

Rev. 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.” (NIV)


Notice, that in each case, the "I am" statement is used, this is the same statement God used when Moses asked God who shall I say sent me? "I am who I am". Ex. 3:14

The usage of the exact same statement numerous times in the Biblical text is clear, and the Jews understood exactly what he was saying because they tried to stone him for claiming to be God.
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 09 February 2012 at 10:06pm
Where in the Bible does Jesus say that i am God or where Jesus says worship me.?????
Give one unequivocal statement from your Bible any version.

Dick,did you read properly it seems that you do not understand English.being the good guy that i am let me help you.

un·e·quiv·o·cal (n-kwv-kl)
adj.
Admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding; clear and unambiguous: an unequivocal success.

I asked for an unequivocal statement and you come and wast my time with
John 8:58 " 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered
Rev. 22: 12
Rev. 22:16
these are not unequivocal statements

Now back to my question

Where in the Bible does Jesus say that i am God or where Jesus says worship me.?????
Give one unequivocal statement from your Bible any version.
and please do not tell me of John 10:30 thank you.
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Quote Hughes Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2012 at 9:30am
Originally posted by iec786

Where in the Bible does Jesus say that i am God or where Jesus says worship me.?????
Give one unequivocal statement from your Bible any version.

Dick,did you read properly it seems that you do not understand English.being the good guy that i am let me help you.

un·e·quiv·o·cal (n-kwv-kl)
adj.
Admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding; clear and unambiguous: an unequivocal success.

I asked for an unequivocal statement and you come and wast my time with
John 8:58 " 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered
Rev. 22: 12
Rev. 22:16
these are not unequivocal statements

Now back to my question

Where in the Bible does Jesus say that i am God or where Jesus says worship me.?????
Give one unequivocal statement from your Bible any version.
and please do not tell me of John 10:30 thank you.


When someone speaks to you in a foreign language, and uses a foreign context, in order to understand that message correctly, it is important to understand the original usages of that language and the intended meaning of the original writer.

In all theses cases, including Jn. 10:30, the intended audience (the jews) understood exactly what Jesus was claiming. So clearly in fact that they were trying to kill him.

If you wish to redefine the message as intended by the original writer (the Holy Spirit), then that is your choice. I can't help you and I wish you well.
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2012 at 4:55am
Mr Hughes,

No way you think you can just run away like that,and expect me to except that answer?You are going to have to do better then that.I have done research and i demand from you answers to my questions.

You better go back to your pastor or priest or your Dr of divinity and come up with proper answers.

Your story of the Jews understood it is a lie.Your Jesus said i have yet many things to say to you but ye cannot bare them now because those Jews never understood a word that he spoke.So for you to come here and tell me that the Jews understood it well is a lie.

Do you know what Jesus called your Jewish friends? Let me give you a Bible lesson.

Jesus said "you evil and adulterous generations,you snakes,you vipers.
now i want you to go back and learn what Jesus said and not what Paul,Paul,Paul the Jew said because what ever you talk about is what Paul said and not what the great master Jesus said.

Edited by iec786 - 11 February 2012 at 4:57am
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2012 at 9:40am
Mr Hughes,


If you wish to redefine the message as intended by the original writer (the Holy Spirit)







I am not sure if i understand this part of your post.Did you just say that the Bible was written by the Holy Ghost?
Please clarify.



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