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truthnowcome
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Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683 |
![]() Topic: WHO IS OR WHAT THE COMFORTER? (FOR KISH)Posted: 24 January 2012 at 8:16pm |
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Originally posted by Kish
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Originally posted by truthnowcomes Don’t even try that here! THIS IS A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF INFORMATION ON THIS FORUM!
Jesus’ message was to inform his followers of the prophet who will come after
him with all the truth, this is what he [Jesus (S)] said: Hostile are we? I believe you are better off just sticking to your Quran for now. The Quran was produced in Arabia for Muslims; it is the first book for Muslims. Its appeal is to the preferences and prejudices of the Arabs, that’s it. Jesus never, never, never, ever said the ‘spirit of truth’ is a person, every Jew and Christian knows that! If you really feel confident on this subject I suggest you open up a new thread on this matter that Muslims have been misinformed by their Imams, believe me I personally know. The ‘only’ prophets Jesus said will come after him will be FALSE PROPHETS! ANYONEANYONEANYONEANYONE Most of what they new were thought to them and it became “believes”. There is a BIG difference between “believes” and “truth”! Christians believe that 1+1+1 =1; they also believe drinking ‘BLOOD” is Sin and EVIL; yet they drink Jesus’ blood and eat his flesh like cannibals and with the note, if you ask them the religion that kills human and drink their blood is it An Evil religion they would say YES! But yet they believe it.
I AM NOT SURE OF THEIR BELIEVE KISH, I THINK THE DISCIPLES KNEW OF HIM: It was conformed in 1John.4:1 Ø “Beloved, believes not every SPIRIT, but tries the SPIRITS whether they are of God because many false PROPHETS are gone out into the world.” 1John.4:1 Now, let us look at this statement, “believe not every spirit”. How do we “believe”? We cannot believe if we do not hear, correct? We have to hear to believe. Now, the verse continues: “but try the spirits whether they are of God” How do we try the Spirit? By questioning him, and that is not my opinion, V.2 conforms it: “2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:” The Spirit has to “confess” and if he “confesses” that would mean we have to listen to him. Now, let us go back to V.1 it says: “because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” Why “gone out into the world”? Because, “into the world” you have to go and look! And what you have to look for? It says: “Because many false prophets are gone out.” The opposite of false prophet is what? True Prophet!!! Conclusion: John is saying, go out into the world and look for a true prophet with the true spirit. And how do we know him? V.2 Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. The Prophet with the True Spirit will have to confess that Jesus (S) come in flesh!
CONFESSIONED OF THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH To have a better understanding we have to begin with the book of John. It is mentioned in John.1:1 “in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” If the word “was” God and the word was “with” God in the literal sense, it would mean that there are two Gods! In the Biblical language, the term “god” is used metaphorically to indicate power. Paul referred to the DEVIL as god. Ø In whom the “god” of this world hath blinded the mind of them which believe not... (2Corinthiants4:4) Moses (S) also referred to as god: Ø “And the Lord said unto Moses, see I have made thee a ‘god’ to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.” (Exodus 7:1) Which word was “with” God in the beginning? For us to know we have to go to the beginning. It mentioned in the beginning: Ø “And God said, let there BE light: and there was light”. (Genesis.1:3) (Brackets added in verse) So which word was with God? BE! And that is the word he used to create all things, and that word He used to create the life: “...And the life was the light of men, and the light shineth in darkness (man) and the darkness (man) comprehended it not”. (John.1:4-5) How he did it? Quran tells us: Ø “When He (Allah) hath decreed a matter, He but said to it, BE and it is!” (Q.3:47) The life or the light is a real fire burning inside of man. Why when we breathe in oxygen we breathe out carbon dioxide? It is the light in us that burns. Ø That was the true light, which lightest every man that come into this world. (John.1:9) Ø And the word (BE) was made flesh, and dwell among us. (John.1:14)
How the word was made flesh? Only the Qur’an gives the answer: Ø Behold! The angel said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee Glad Tidings of a word from Him: His name will be (Isa) Christ Jesus, the son of Mary...She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" Allah createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a matter, He but saith to it BE, and it is! (Q.3:45-47) And the word “BE” was made flesh and dwell among us. Ø Here by know ye the Spirit of God: Every Spirit that comfesseth that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God. (1John 4:2) Who confesses that? Muhammad (S), He (S) was that True Prophet with the Spirit of Truth! Allah (S) mentioned in the Qur’an: “Verily this is a revelation from the Lord of the world: With it came down the SPIRIT OF FAITH and TRUTH (Rooh-ul-Amin). To thy heart.” (Q.26:192-194)
HE SHALL TESTIFY OF ME Jesus (S) said: Ø “When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which Proceedeth from the Father, he will testify of me.” (John 15:26 ) It is mentioned in the Qur'an: Ø people of Book! Commit no excess in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His word (BE), which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messenger. Say not "trinity": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is one God: Glory be to Him. (Q.4:171) Jesus was a MESSENGER of Allah, a WORD from Allah and a SPIRIT proceeding from Allah. “...He shall testify of me.” (John 15:26) Ø The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, BE And he was. (Q.3:59) The truth [comes] from thy Lord alone; so be not of those who doubt. (Q.3:60) Allah (S) said: Ø "If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after [full] knowledge hath come to thee, Say: 'Come! Let us gather together, our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray. And invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!'" (Q.3:61) TNC Edited by truthnowcome - 24 January 2012 at 9:49pm |
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Kish
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Joined: 07 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237 |
![]() Posted: 25 January 2012 at 8:19pm |
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Originally posted by truthnowcome
“And God said, let there BE light: and there was light”. . . So which word was with God? BE! (Genesis.1:3) My friend, the definition for ‘be’ is - to take place; happen; occur: look it up in the dictionary, how else would you be able to see anything from earth. So God said let there BE light. The sun, the moon, and the stars were now made “to shine upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:17) Originally posted by truthnowcome
It is mentioned in John.1:1 “in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” What Muhammad failed to grasp was the ‘word.’ Who was the ‘word’ or lo’gos that was with God in the beginning, it was Jesus! When God said ‘let us’ make man in our image Geneses 1:26 he was referring to Jesus. Originally posted by truthnowcome
Conclusion: John is saying, go out into the world and look for a true prophet with the true spirit. And how do we know him? V.2 Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. The Prophet with the True Spirit will have to confess that Jesus (S) come in flesh! This scripture would pose a problem with Muhammad/Muslims because they don’t believe Jesus is a god and came in the flesh. So no way would this be Muhammad. Originally posted by truthnowcome
“When He (Allah) hath decreed a matter, He but said to it, BE and it is!” (Q.3:47) Muhammad and his angel put emphasis on the wrong word which is why the angel is not from God. Why I say this? Because as you said “And the word (BE) was made flesh, and dwell among us.” (John.1:14) Again, ‘word’ should have been emphasized not ‘BE’ the ‘word’ was and still is Jesus. Then you said . . . Originally posted by truthnowcome
How the word was made flesh? Only the Qur’an gives the answer: How only the Quran gives the answer when you quoted John by saying “And the word (BE) was made flesh, and dwell among us. (John.1:14) which was written before the Quran? Originally posted by truthnowcome
Here by know ye the Spirit of God: Every Spirit that comfesseth that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God. (1John 4:2) Do you believe that Jesus is of God which we as Christians already know and that salvation is only through him? Isaiah prophesied in the OT by saying . . . Isaiah 62:11 - Look! Jehovah himself has caused [it] to be heard to the farthest part of the earth: “Say, YOU people, to the daughter of Zion, ‘Look! Your salvation is coming. Look! The reward he gives is with him, and the wages he pays are before him. Apostles in NT harmoniously confirms what Prophet Isaiah in OT says . . . John 17:3 - This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ Acts 4:12 - Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved. Originally posted by truthnowcome
Jesus (S) said: “When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which Proceedeth from the Father, he will testify of me.” (John 15:26 ) If Jesus is talking to his father he must then be the son. But, of course Islam does not teach that so this most certainly cannot refer to Muhammad, correct, Islam has no father in heaven. So my question is, was this “helper/comforter” a book, a person, or something else? And when was he going to send it? |
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truthnowcome
Senior Member
Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683 |
![]() Posted: 27 January 2012 at 3:23am |
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Quran give the answer and it tells you why: “When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): “Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?” They said: “Yea! We do testify!” (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: “Varily, we have been unaware of this” Or lest ye should say: “It was Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us who took others as partnesrin worship along with Allah, and we were (merely their) decendants after them; will you then destroy us because of the deeds of men?” Al-A'raf (The Heights) 7:172-173 After creating all the children of Adam Allah made them testified of his Lordship so when they would be sent to earth and return tare will be no excuses on the Day of Judgment, even if they say they parents take false god and they follow them.
Nothing new it is in the book of revelation: John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from “him” which is, and which was, and which is to come; “and” from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; V.5 “And” from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness… Rev.1: 4-5 Jesus (S) was back there in the “beginning” as a “faithful witness”.
He also testifies of Muhammad (S) back there when he was on earth: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is ‘IN’ heaven.” John 3:13 (KJV) Jesus (S) was the Son of man “ON” earth and he spoke about “another” Son of man, which is “IN” heaven. That “son of man which is still in Heaven in the other Comforter to come. It is also in the OT, Prophet Solomon is reported in Proverbs 8:22-27 (NIV) to have said: "22 The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; 23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, According to Job 38:4 and 21 (NIV), God addresses Prophet Job as follows: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years! Why we do not remember what happen in the beginning? Allah (S) tells us in the Noble Qur’an: By the time, verily Man is in lost, except such as have faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual enjoining of truth, and of patience and constancy. (Q.103:1-3) By the passing of time: Time begins with Allah’s (S) creations and we were created in the beginning to witness the one true Creator Allah (S) before we were place here on earth. We then become forgetful and ungrateful of the Creator Allah (S), we are in a state of lost or forgetfulness by the passing of time, and to get back there we have to put our trust and have faith in Allah (S) by following His reminder (The Qur’an and the prophet’s (S) Sunnah) Allah (S) said:“Butwhosoever turns away from My Message (Dhikr), verily for him is a life narrowed down, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Judgment. He will say: "O my Lord! why hast Thou raised me up blind, while I had sight (before)?" (Allah)) will say: "Thus didst Thou, when Our Signs came unto thee, disregard them: so wilt thou, this day, be disregarded." 20:124-26 (Y. Ali)
Don’t try that, Mr. Kish! The “us” is “royal plural” and the Jews knew that; it is the Romans who give it that interpretation, try again!
TNC Edited by truthnowcome - 27 January 2012 at 4:24am |
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Kish
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Joined: 07 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237 |
![]() Posted: 27 January 2012 at 9:24am |
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Originally posted by truthnowcomes
Allah (S) gives the answer in the Quran that he was the word, meaning: he was created in flesh with the word “Be”. Perhaps you did not understand what you read so here it is again . . .Geneses 1:14 The Word was made flesh So the answer was ALREADY FIRST GIVEN in the (OT) Bible 600 years before the Quran to the Apostle John even before he wrote the book of Revelation, sorry to be the one to break the news to you! What was new to Muslims is not to Christians; this has always been the case. Muhammad is trying to reinvent the wheel all over again! That is why we know it could not have been the angel Gabriel giving the messenger this information; it was already said and done. We know Jesus is the ‘faithful witness’ but we also know salvation is only through Jesus as the Apostle John also said which Muslims do not accept. Submitting to some of God’s message through John is unacceptable; Jesus is the Messiah the ‘son of God’ as foretold by many of the prophets before John, centuries in advance! Originally posted by truthnowcomes
The “us” is “royal plural” and the Jews knew that; it is the Romans who give it that interpretation, try again! Okay, plural, so we agree he was speaking to someone other than himself. But still, there was no Jew, Roman or Greek at the time of Moses writing Geneses so this has nothing to do with the Romans. Here it is again - Gen 11:7 Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language. Originally posted by truthnowcomes
Ø I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which Proceedeth from the Father, he will testify of me.” (John 15:26 ) Don’t interpret this thing Mr. Kish! How else would you interpret it, it mentions 'from the father?' Who's father, Jesus. DON'T you miss-interpret it! So I repeat . . . Originally posted by kish
this scripture would pose a problem with Muhammad/Muslims because they don’t believe Jesus is a god and came in the flesh. So no way would this be Muhammad. In that scripture it says Jesus' father will send him the 'Spirit of Truth!' Got cha!!!! [IMG]smileys/smiley9.gif" align="middle" /> Originally posted by truthnowcomes
Jesus (S) is “no God”; you yourself attest to that: No, Muslims do not believe that Jesus is a god Christians like myself do! Here is my quote again, stop trying to put words in my mouth, it’s unbecoming of you. Originally posted by kish
Do you believe that Jesus is of God which we as Christians already know . . So you are wrong by saying ‘I attest to that’ Originally posted by truthnowcomes
You see that, just as the Qur’an says, to believe in the “only one true God” and the “one who was sent by him (the only one true God).” Okay, but the Bible said that long before the Quran did, why is the Quran trying to take credit for what was said? The Q did not reveal it first! Are you following your Quran when it says . . . Q 3:84 - Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: Q 4:136 - O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Apostle, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Apostle and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Originally posted by truthnowcomes
You see that, just as the Qur’an says, to believe in the “only one true God” and the “one who was sent by him (the only one true God).” Yes! I believe the whole Gospel of John which the Quran is again quoting from, right? But, Muslims pick and choose what fits; the Bible was never tailored to fit Islam and never will. The problem that Muslims are having is trying to tailor the Q to fit the Bible, it will never happened! That is like putting the cart before the horse or an egg before the chicken, it is not possible, logical and reasonable. Have you ever saw a cart ahead of a horse? If you have which I’m sure you hadn’t you would think something is seriously wrong wouldn’t you? That is exactly what Muhammad did in his Q Originally posted by truthnowcomes
GOT YA HERE! Now you agree that the Qur’an agrees with the NT! Not by a long shot. It acknowledges the NT; there is a difference in the two words. If the Q agrees with the NT it would not pick and choose it would agree with the whole NT which it does not. Originally posted by truthnowcomes
The difference is the Romans' interpretation is "God come in flesh" where as the word “Be” that were back there in the “beginning” was used to created Jesus (S). Regardless, the Gospel agrees that the “word” in Geneses is Jesus and Jesus came in the flesh according to the Apostle John! The Apostle Paul also agrees . . . “He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.” (Colossians 1:15) So you are incorrect by putting the emphasis on “Be” The emphasis is on “word” who was Jesus according to John 1:1 and even you admitted to that. The bottom line is that you and I agree that Jesus was there in the beginning with God and that God did not send himself. But this thread is on who is the comforter so I’ll quote the question again because you didn’t respond to it. . . Originally posted by kish
. . . was this “comforter” a book, a person, or something else? Also, as you said - Originally posted by truthnowcomes
Ø I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which Proceedeth from the Father, he will testify of me.” (John 15:26 ) Who is the father mentioned here, and who will the father testify for? I look forward to your answers TNC. Edited by Kish - 27 January 2012 at 9:39am |
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truthnowcome
Senior Member
Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683 |
![]() Posted: 28 January 2012 at 7:55pm |
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He is the “image” of the invisible god and “not” the invisible god! Adam (s) and eve was “created” in the “image” of the same invisible God also: 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1: 27
Peter testimony when address the Jews: Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, “a man approve of God” among you by miracles and wonders and sign, which God did by him in the midst of you, as you your self also know” (Acts 2:22) And Jesus (S) said: "I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." (John 13:16) Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.” (John 7:16) “For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49) “I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.” (John.5:30) Again, one who is sent with a message is a “messenger” and not God.
And who is Jesus (S) Father? Jesus (S) said: Ø “…Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and my God, and your God.” (John 20:16-17 AKJV)
According to him, his Father is “OUR GOD and HIS GOD; He has a GOD, He said: “MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.” And the following verse he declared that he is not good only God is good, in reply to someone he (S) said to him: "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." (Mark 10:18)
Kish you have to wake up from your dream; you are worshiping a man god who has also a supreme and invisible God.
I don’t think you believe the bible; what you believe in the “interpretation” of your bible. Your bible clearly stated that Jesus (S) was a “CREATION” OF THE “INVISIBLE GOD” AND STILL YOU SAY HE IS GOD. He was “CREATED” from the word “be” in the “BEGINNING” and also he was “CREATED” IN FLESH with the word “be” that is why the scripture address him as “a word” from Allah (S).
I did, but you just read John and ignore the rest of information related in context of “creation”; that is why you arrived with the Romans’ interpretation” of a “man god”. The above proof is an example. TNC |
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truthnowcome
Senior Member
Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683 |
![]() Posted: 28 January 2012 at 8:03pm |
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Habakkuk tells us who will bring SALVATION: Ø …And the Holy One from Mount Paran (Arabia). Se-lah His Glory covered the heaven, and the earth was full of his praise. (Habakkuk 3:3-16) Who is this Holy one from Mount Paran? It is mentioned in Genesis 21:21 Ø “And he (Ishmael) dwelt in the wilderness of Paran.” And Muhammad (S) is the descendant of Ishmael’s. The Holy one from Mt. Paran message is Universal: Ø He stood and measured the earth: he beheld and drove asunder the nations…“His way are everlasting”. (Habk.3:6) The Holy One from Mount Paran [Muhammad (S)]; he brought "SALVATION": Ø ...at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Thou didst tresh the heathen in anger. Thou wentest forth for "SALVATION" of thy people, even "SALVATION" for the "ANOINTED”… (Habk.3:11-13KJV) Anointed: The second coming of Jesus (S) it to establish what the Holy One from Mount Paran brought: "SALVATION!" Ø And he [Moses (S)] said: the Lord came from Sinai, and rose from Sir unto them; He shined forth from MOUNT PARAN, and he came with ten thousand Saints: from his right hand went a fiery LAW for them. (Duet.33:2 KJV) History of Islam: When Muhammad (S) invade Mecca with “ten thousand followers” they only kill six persons who were among the leaders: Ø “Thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Se-lah.” (Habk.3:13) tnc |
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truthnowcome
Senior Member
Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 683 |
![]() Posted: 28 January 2012 at 8:10pm |
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That is what I said you agrees on because you quote it, see below:
It is mentioned in the Qur'an: O people of Book! Commit no excess in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His word (BE), which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messenger. Say not "trinity": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is one God: Glory be to Him. (Q.4:171) Jesus was a MESSENGER of Allah, a WORD from Allah and a SPIRIT proceeding from Allah. “...He shall testify of me.” (John 15:26) The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, BE And he was. (Q.3:59) That is exactly what I have proven from your bible above! The truth [comes] from thy Lord alone; so be not of those who doubt. (Q.3:60)
“...we have an “advocate” with the father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” (1John.2:1) Jesus (S) was a “Comforter” and he “PRAIED” like every one else and ask the father for “another” comforter. What does “another” mean? “…I will pray to the father, and he shall give you "another" Comforter that he may abide with you for ever. Even the spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you. (John14:16-17) TNC |
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honeto
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Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340 |
![]() Posted: 30 January 2012 at 10:35am |
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Kish,
it seems that you try to talk more than you can comprehend. That is a big mistake when trying to understand things forget about others to understand or even listen to you. I will take just one item out of so many you wrote without understanding any it seems. I thank TNC for not just keeping up with you but beating every argument you bring in, may Allah reward him. In reponse to TNC on Jan 25 you wrote: "What Muhammad failed to grasp was the ‘word.’ Who was the ‘word’ or lo’gos that was with God in the beginning, it was Jesus! When God said ‘let us’ make man in our image Geneses 1:26 he was referring to Jesus." My quesstion to you in response to what you wrote will be: Did a single prophet of the OT ever mentioned that there is someone beside God named Jesus who is also God as you understand? Can you back up your claim with words of any OT prophet who has plainly and clearly said that? Such an assuption just does not make sense in the first place, nor it has any proof in the OT, does it? Also it does not make sense that if God wants to come on earth, He has to born to one of His creatures. What a senseless thing to say. Hasan
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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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