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Interfaith Dialogue
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Bowman
 
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Quote Bowman Replybullet Posted: 14 January 2012 at 6:54pm

Originally posted by islamispeace

 

 

Originally posted by Bowman

61.6 paraphrases Jesus’ quote from Malachi, which pertains to John the Baptist preparing the way for Him, as recorded in the Biblical Gospels.



How do you know this?  Where does it indicate in that verse that it is a paraphrase "from Malachi"?  For once, can you actually provide evidence instead of silly assumptions? 

Even if it was a paraphrase from Malachi, how can it be referring to John the Baptist referring to Jesus when in the ayat, Jesus is the one referring to the coming messenger? 

You are going around in circles and not proving anything.

 

 

 

Observe this Koranic quote from Jesus, which borrows the same phraseology as that of 61.6 – confirming that Jesus is the subject spoken of as “Ahmad”, and also confirming His deity…

 

ومصدقا لما بين يدي من التورية ولأحل لكم

بعض الذي حرم عليكم وجئتكم باية من ربكم

فاتقوا الله وأطيعون

 

Wamusaddiqan lima bayna yadayya mina alttawrati wali-ohilla lakum baAAda allathee hurrima AAalaykum waji/tukum bi-ayatin min rabbikum faittaqoo Allaha waateeAAooni

 

3.50   "And fulfilling the truth altogether manifest before, from the scriptures of the Jews and Christians; and by it has been made lawful by your portion (of) which is forbidden to you, and I came to you on account of an apparent sign from your Lord, so you take as a shield “allah”, and obey me!"

 

 

 

 

More on John the Baptist…

 

When John the Baptist’ name is called-out in the Koran it is always in the context of Jesus Christ:

 

John the Baptist: 3.38-40, 6.85-86, 19.7-15, 21.90

 

Thus, it should come as no surprise to discover that John the Baptist’ attributes are also intertwined in the context of the Koranic passages that describe “Muhammad” & “Ahmad” (i.e. Jesus Christ), as John is blazing the path for Jesus - such it is with the two other ayahs that utilize the participle “wamubashshiran” as found in 61.6…

 

 

إنا أرسلنك شهدا ومبشرا ونذيرا

 

Inna arsalnaka shahidan wamubashshiran wanatheeran

 

48.8   Certainly we sent as a witness, and one who rejoices another, and a warner.

 

 

This passage is one of several that describe John the Baptist, in an ayah that culminates with the mentioning of “Muhammad” (i.e. Jesus Christ).

 

 

 

 

Compare to this nearly verbatim ayah…

 

 

 

يأيها النبي إنا أرسلنك شهدا ومبشرا ونذيرا

 

Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu inna arsalnaka shahidan wamubashshiran wanatheeran

 

33.45   O! you the prophet, certainly we sent as a witness, and one who rejoices another, and a warner.

 

 

 

This ayah builds upon 48.8 by adding the detail that John the Baptist is also a Prophet – as told to us by Jesus in the Gospels.

 

Further, this ayah comes on the heels of the mentioning of “Muhammad” (i.e. Jesus Christ) in 33.40.

 

 

 

 

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Bowman
 
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Quote Bowman Replybullet Posted: 14 January 2012 at 7:09pm

Originally posted by islamispeace

 

 

 

Originally posted by Bowman

Jesus quotes from the Old Testament (alttawrati).



Wrong.  "At-Taurat" does not refer to the entire Old Testament but to the Torah specifically. 

The rest of the chain is pure nonsense so I will not waste time on it.  However, you then stated:

 

تورية = “tawrati”

 

“tawrati” definition:

 

Noun.  He alluded to a thing equivocally, or ambiguously; equivocated respecting it: he meant such a thing and pretended another

 

التورية = “al” + “tawrati” = “altawrati” = The scriptures of the Jews and Christians.

 

 

It comes from the root “wara”, which means it produced its fire; to eat away the interior of the body, hide, conceal.

 

  

 

 

References:

An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3052, volume 7, p. 2590

The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 607

 

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by islamispeace

 

Originally posted by Bowman

  • This “messenger’s” name (ismuhu) is worthy of praise (ahmadu).  Thus, just like the participle “Muhammad”, “ahmadu” refers to a man that is praised as deity.

 

You simply made this up.  As I stated, "Ahmad" means "the praise worthy".  The fact that the verse mentions that "Ahmad" will be a messenger refutes the claim that it "refers to a man that is praised as deity".  This is complete nonsense not to mention blasphemy.  A messenger is sent.  Therefore, he cannot be God Himself, who the One who does the sending. 

 

 

أحمد = “ahmadu”

 

“ahmadu” definition:

 

He (a man), came to a state, or result, such as was praised, or commended, or approved; properly, his affair, or case, came to such a state or result; or he did or said, that for which he should be praised, or commended; or that which was praiseworthy, or commendable. 

 

It comes from the root “hamida”, which means he praised, eulogized, or commended him; spoke well of him; mentioned him with approbation; sometimes because of favor received.  Also implies admiration; and it implies the magnifying, or honoring, of the object thereof; and lowliness, humility, or submissiveness, in the person who offers it.  He declared the praises of God or he praised God much with good forms of praise.

 

References:

An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume two, pp. 638 – 640

The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 135 - 136

A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 38

Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 56

 

 

Thus, from the classic definition, just like the participle “Muhammad”; we are told that “ahmad” is in reference to a man, and that this man is praised or is worthy of praise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by islamispeace

 

 

The Quran is the final revelation sent to correct the many lies and fabrications that have entered into your Bible.  Anyone who studies the Bible will see the many errors, contradictions and flat-out lies which litter this book.  Some of them are so obvious, one has to wonder if Jews and Christians are simply choosing to shut their eyes to the many embarrassing problems that can be found in their respective books. 

 

 

Why & how they did it:

 

 

والكتب المبين إنا جعلنه قرءنا عربيا لعلكم تعقلون وإنه في أم الكتب لدينا لعلي حكيم

 

Waalkitabi almubeeni inna jaAAalnahu qur-anan AAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona wa-innahu fee ommi alkitabi ladayna laAAaliyyun hakeemun

 

And The Book, the clear.  Truly we have made it an Arabic collection, perhaps you comprehend.  And truly it, in company with the source, from The Book, eminent, full of wisdom.  (43.2 – 4)

 

 

 

The authors of the Koran wanted the Koran to be an Arabic accompaniment to the Holy Bible (Alkitabi)….so they converted the Holy Bible into Arabic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

وما كان هذا القرءان أن يفترى من دون الله ولكن تصديق الذي بين يديه وتفصيل الكتب لا ريب فيه من رب العلمين

 

 

Wama kana hatha alqur-anu an yuftara min dooni Allahi walakin tasdeeqa allathee bayna yadayhi watafseela alkitabi la rayba feehi min rabbi alAAalameena

 

10.37    And that this was the collection, that fabricated one, from superior (to) “allah”, and but (a) confirmation (of) Him in His presence, and explaining The Book, no doubt in it, from the lord of the jinn and of mankind.

 

Although the Koran is an admitted fabrication, its purpose was to explain the Holy Bible in Arabic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The conversion of the Holy Bible into an Arabic Koran must be easy to remember…

 

 

 

ولقد يسرنا القرءان للذكر فهل من مدكر

 

Walaqad yassarna alqur-ana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin

 

54.17   And truly we made the Collection easy to remember, so is there from one who will take heed?

 

 

 

 

ولقد يسرنا القرءان للذكر فهل من مدكر

 

Walaqad yassarna alqur-ana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin

 

54.22   And truly we made the Collection easy to remember, so is there from one who will take heed?

 

 

 

 

ولقد يسرنا القرءان للذكر فهل من مدكر

 

Walaqad yassarna alqur-ana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin

 

54.32   And truly we made the Collection easy to remember, so is there from one who will take heed?

 

 

 

 

ولقد يسرنا القرءان للذكر فهل من مدكر

 

Walaqad yassarna alqur-ana lilththikri fahal min muddakirin

 

54.40   And truly we made the Collection easy to remember, so is there from one who will take heed?

 

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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2012 at 2:55pm
Dear Bowman,
I did not get your answer to my question yet. Do you believe in Santa Claus?
Trust me your answer to this question will save us all the long walk.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 16 January 2012 at 2:55pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Bowman Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2012 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by honeto

Dear Bowman,
I did not get your answer to my question yet. Do you believe in Santa Claus?
Trust me your answer to this question will save us all the long walk.
Hasan
 
 
Do you believe that Muhammad was crucified until death upon the cross?
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 18 January 2012 at 1:16pm
So now we know that you are not truthful, this talk is just a joke, rather a deception you are leading yourself into. Good luck! And may God guide you toward the right.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Bowman Replybullet Posted: 19 January 2012 at 10:26am
Originally posted by honeto

So now we know that you are not truthful, this talk is just a joke, rather a deception you are leading yourself into. Good luck! And may God guide you toward the right.
Hasan
 
 
I am very truthful.
 
Now...answer the question.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 30 January 2012 at 11:00am
If you put the question in the proper thread, we will answer it, this thread deals with, as you should know you started it, what language Jesus spoke?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 20 February 2012 at 10:29am

Islamispeace and Honeto/Hasan, it is very well documented that Jesus did NOT speak Arabic but definitely spoke Hebrew!!! Acts 26:14, 15 tells us ...... And when we had all fallen to the ground I heard a voice say to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? To keep kicking against the goads makes it hard for you.’ 15 But I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting

For a fact!!! We know Jesus spoke Hebrew!!!

For a FACT!!! We know the Prophets in the Bible all spoke Hebrew!!!

For a fact!!! We know Arabic was not even a language!!!

For a FACT!!! We know none of the Prophets were Arabian!!!

However!!! Arabians were among the EARLY Christian Congregation of Jesus at Pentecost!!!


Edited by Kish - 20 February 2012 at 10:29am
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