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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 03 January 2012 at 8:59pm
Jesus was bilingual; he spoke a form of Hebrew and a dialect of Aramaic. However, in his teaching ministry he regularly used the highly Aramaized popular Hebrew.”—Biblical Archaeology, 1962, page 243.

But, when Jesus came to Nazareth in Galilee and entered the synagogue there, he read from the prophecy of Isaiah, evidently as written in Hebrew. Nothing is said about Jesus’ translating this passage into Aramaic.—Luke 4:16-21.

It's also noted that the sign that Pilate had posted on Jesus’ torture stake was written in three languages—Hebrew being the main one.—John 19:20

When the physician Luke says that Paul spoke to the people of Jerusalem in “the Hebrew language,” it seems unlikely that he meant thereby the Aramaic or Syrian language. Ac 21:40; 22:2; compare 26:14.

Adam spoke Hebrew and it was the language spoken of in Noah’s day, but Moses and Abraham speaking Aramaic; that’s a far, far stretch of the imagination.

2 Kings 18:26, 28 At this E•li′a•kim the son of Hil•ki′ah and Sheb′nah and Jo′ah said to Rab′sha•keh: “Speak with your servants, please, in the Syrian language, for we can listen; and do not speak with us in the Jews’ language (Hebrew) in the ears of the people that are on the wall.”
And Rab′sha•keh continued to stand and call out in a loud voice in the Jews’ language; and he went on to speak and say: “HEAR the word of the great king, the king of As•syr′i•a

However, it should be noted that in the Christian Greek Scriptures, the language is still referred to as the “Hebrew” language of the Jews, not the Aramaic. (John 5:2; 19:13, 17; Acts 22:2; Rev. 9:11)


Edited by Kish - 03 January 2012 at 9:02pm
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 12:42am
Originally posted by Kish

Jesus was bilingual; he spoke a form of Hebrew and a dialect of Aramaic. However, in his teaching ministry he regularly used the highly Aramaized popular Hebrew.”—Biblical Archaeology, 1962, page 243.

But, when Jesus came to Nazareth in Galilee and entered the synagogue there, he read from the prophecy of Isaiah, evidently as written in Hebrew. Nothing is said about Jesus’ translating this passage into Aramaic.—Luke 4:16-21.

It's also noted that the sign that Pilate had posted on Jesus’ torture stake was written in three languages—Hebrew being the main one.—John 19:20

When the physician Luke says that Paul spoke to the people of Jerusalem in “the Hebrew language,” it seems unlikely that he meant thereby the Aramaic or Syrian language. Ac 21:40; 22:2; compare 26:14.

Adam spoke Hebrew and it was the language spoken of in Noah’s day, but Moses and Abraham speaking Aramaic; that’s a far, far stretch of the imagination.

2 Kings 18:26, 28 At this E•li′a•kim the son of Hil•ki′ah and Sheb′nah and Jo′ah said to Rab′sha•keh: “Speak with your servants, please, in the Syrian language, for we can listen; and do not speak with us in the Jews’ language (Hebrew) in the ears of the people that are on the wall.”
And Rab′sha•keh continued to stand and call out in a loud voice in the Jews’ language; and he went on to speak and say: “HEAR the word of the great king, the king of As•syr′i•a

However, it should be noted that in the Christian Greek Scriptures, the language is still referred to as the “Hebrew” language of the Jews, not the Aramaic. (John 5:2; 19:13, 17; Acts 22:2; Rev. 9:11)



MR. Kish, dont push garbage here? This is evidence that the Bible (a collection of books) was not written in it's mother thong (Hebrew and a dialect of Aramaic), why?

 

http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/aramaic_language.html

  <>

The Aramaic Language

Aramaic is one of the Semitic languages, an important group of languages known almost from the beginning of human history and including also Arabic, Hebrew, Ethiopic, and Akkadian (ancient Babylonian and Assyrian). It is particularly closely related to Hebrew, and was written in a variety of alphabetic scripts. (What is usually called "Hebrew" script is actually an Aramaic script.)

The Earliest Aramaic

0ur first glimpse of Aramaic comes from a small number of ancient royal inscriptions from almost three thousand years ago (900-700 B.C.E.). Dedications to the gods, international treaties, and memorial stelae reveal to us the history of the first small Aramean kingdoms, in the territories of modern Syria and Southeast Turkey, living under the shadow of the rising Assyrian empire.

Aramaic as an Imperial Language

Aramaic was used by the conquering Assyrians as a language of administration communication, and following them by the Babylonian and Persian empires, which ruled from India to Ethiopia, and employed Aramaic as the official language. For this period, then (about 700–320 B.C.E.), Aramaic held a position similar to that occupied by English today. The most important documents of this period are numerous papyri from Egypt and Palestine.

Biblical Aramaic

Aramaic displaced Hebrew for many purposes among the Jews, a fact reflected in the Bible, where portions of Ezra and Daniel are in Aramaic. Some of the best known stories in biblical literature, including that of Belshazzar’s feast with the famous "handwriting on the wall" are in Aramaic.

Jewish Aramaic Literature

Aramaic remained a dominant language for Jewish worship, scholarship, and everyday life for centuries in both the land of Israel and in the diaspora, especially in Babylon.

Among the Dead Sea Scrolls, the remains of the library of a Jewish sect from around the turn of the Era, are many compositions in Aramaic. These new texts also provide the best evidence for Palestinian Aramaic of the sort used by Jesus and his disciples.

Since the Jews spoke Aramaic, and knowledge of Hebrew was no longer widespread, the practice arose in the synagogue of providing the reading of the sacred Hebrew scriptures with an Aramaic translation or paraphrase, a "Targum" In the course of time a whole array of targums for the Law and other parts of the Bible were composed. More than translations, they incorporated much of traditional Jewish scriptural interpretation.

In their academies the rabbis and their disciples transmitted, commented, and debated Jewish law; the records of their deliberations constitute the two talmuds: that of the land of Israel and the much larger Babylonian Talmud. Although the talmuds contain much material in Hebrew, the basic language of these vast compilations is Aramaic (in Western and Eastern dialects).

Christian Aramaic Literature

Although Jesus spoke Aramaic, the Gospels are in Greek, and only rarely quote actual Aramaic words. Reconstruction of the Aramaic background of the Gospels remains a fascinating, but inordinately difficult area of modern research.

Christians in Palestine eventually rendered portions of Christian Scripture into their dialect of Aramaic; these translations and related writings constitute "Christian Palestinian Aramaic".

A much larger body of Christian Aramaic is known as Syriac. Indeed, Syriac writings surpass in quantity all other Aramaic combined. Syriac is originally the literary language of the city of Edessa (now Urfa in SE Turkey). The language became the tongue of the entire eastern wing of the church, from about the third century C.E. down until well past the Muslim conquest.

Syriac writings include numerous Bible translations, the most important being the so-called Peshitta (simple) translation, and countless devotional, dogmatic, exegetical, liturgical, and historical works. Almost all of the Greek philosophical and scientific tradition was eventually translated into Syriac, and it was through this channel that most found their way into the Islamic World and thence, into post-Dark Ages Europe.

Other Aramaic

There are many other branches of Aramaic literature, including the substantial literature of the Mandaeans, a Gnostic religious group, and the Bible translation, liturgy, and doctrinal works of the Samaritans.

--------------------

WHY GREEK AND NOT ARAMAIC?

TRUTHNOWCOME


Edited by truthnowcome - 05 January 2012 at 12:53am
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Bowman

Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Bowman

If this is the case, then why does He speak Arabic in your Koran?LOL


Well first of all, Aramaic and Arabic are sister languages.  Second of all, where does the Quran say that he spoke Arabic?  The Quran is written in the Arabic language so all the stories and quotes of the prophets would obviously be in Arabic!  Is that really so hard to understand?  Wink
 
 
The authors of the Koran have not only Jesus speaking in Arabic, but all the OT prophets such as Moses and Abraham, as well - even before Arabic was invented!
 
See the problem, brother?!
 
This is simply more proof that the Koran is not original, but, in fact, a second-hand copy of the original.
 
 
 
Dear Bowman,
welcome to the forum, I hope you benefit from visiting us as well as we benefit from your visiting us here.
I see you first pose a question. Based on what I know I beleive Aramiac was Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) mother tongue and that it is also possible that he knew and spoke other languages like Greek and Hebrew.
 
You said: "The authors of the Koran have not only Jesus speaking in Arabic, but all the OT prophets such as Moses and Abraham, as well - even before Arabic was invented". Please help me understand you and your level of understanding, do you believe in Santa Claus? Trust me your answer to the question will help me to address your comment from the right angle.
 
Thanks,
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 05 January 2012 at 3:30pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Bowman Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by islamispeace



 Again, the Quran is an Arabic book so...the narratives will be in...Arabic!  Your argument is the same as saying that an English translation of the Quran has the prophets speaking English.  It is a logical absurdity. 
 
The Koran is not even written in the original languages that the prophets spoke, brother.  How then can any of it be original?
 
It can't.
 
What this forces the Muslim to do is seek out the original revealed languages of the Holy Bible.
 

 
 
 
Originally posted by islamispeace



You have not answered my question as to where the Quran actually says that Jesus spoke Arabic. 
 
 
Every place in which Jesus is quoted as talking, brother.
 
 


Edited by Bowman - 05 January 2012 at 6:53pm
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Quote Bowman Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne

Bowman, the Quran like the Bible is in large parts not a history book describing real-life events with people conversing in certain languages. These holy texts contain spiritual truths, myths, parables, poems, and other forms of symbolic texts. As human beings Isa and the Prophet did not live at the same time. 
 
 
The Holy Bible uses the languages in use by the prophets.
 
Jesus was a polyglot (i.e. He spoke several languages), as revealed in the NT.
 
The Koran, however, has Him speaking in Arabic, of which, not a single solitary Muslim ever claimed that He spoke!
 
 


Edited by Bowman - 05 January 2012 at 6:57pm
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Quote Bowman Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Bowman

Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Bowman

If this is the case, then why does He speak Arabic in your Koran?LOL


Well first of all, Aramaic and Arabic are sister languages.  Second of all, where does the Quran say that he spoke Arabic?  The Quran is written in the Arabic language so all the stories and quotes of the prophets would obviously be in Arabic!  Is that really so hard to understand?  Wink
 
 
The authors of the Koran have not only Jesus speaking in Arabic, but all the OT prophets such as Moses and Abraham, as well - even before Arabic was invented!
 
See the problem, brother?!
 
This is simply more proof that the Koran is not original, but, in fact, a second-hand copy of the original.
 
 
 
Dear Bowman,
welcome to the forum, I hope you benefit from visiting us as well as we benefit from your visiting us here.
I see you first pose a question. Based on what I know I beleive Aramiac was Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) mother tongue and that it is also possible that he knew and spoke other languages like Greek and Hebrew.
 
You said: "The authors of the Koran have not only Jesus speaking in Arabic, but all the OT prophets such as Moses and Abraham, as well - even before Arabic was invented". Please help me understand you and your level of understanding, do you believe in Santa Claus? Trust me your answer to the question will help me to address your comment from the right angle.
 
Thanks,
Hasan
 
 
 
My simple question posed in the OP forces followers of islam to get the 'deer in the headlights' look.
 
It is so obvious to anyone that the Koran was not revealed in any of the original languages of the prophets.
 
Further, there are an untold number of Arabicized words residing in the Koran borrowed from the Greek.  So, we know that authors of the Koran translated the original languages into Arabic - much more certain to be a copy....
 
 
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2012 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by Bowman

The Koran is not even written in the original languages that the prophets spoke, brother.  How then can any of it be original?


First of all, why does that even matter?

Second, since when did the other prophets speak Greek?

Third, unlike Judaism and Christianity,  Islam does not believe that God is so narrow-minded as to send only Jewish prophets.  Islam states that God sent prophets to all nations, in their own languages.  The Quran states:

"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom" (14:4). 

Originally posted by Bowman

What this forces the Muslim to do is seek out the original revealed languages of the Holy Bible.


How so?  Just because you say so, does not make it so.  What are the so-called "original revealed languages"?  What proof do you have that these languages are "original" or "revealed"? 

Originally posted by Bowman

Every place in which Jesus is quoted as talking, brother.
 

You still can't seem to understand that the Quran is an Arabic book, so obviously all the stories and narratives will be in Arabic.  So I ask again:  Where does the Quran say that "Jesus spoke Arabic"?

The New Testament is written in Greek, yet there is no evidence that the Jews of Jesus' time spoke Greek.  As brother Zainool has shown, the Palestinian Jews predominately spoke Aramaic, not Hebrew or Greek.  If we use your logic, then since the NT uses Greek, we could claim that it means that Jesus spoke Greek.  But such a claim would be premature and downright false since the NT is written is Greek for the simple readon that it's authors spoke Greek, nothing more.  It cannot be used as evidence to claim that Jesus spoke Greek.

Furthermore, your statement to Matt that "Jesus was a polyglot (i.e. He spoke several languages), as revealed in the NT" is an unsubstantiated statement.  There simply is no proof that "Jesus was a polyglot".  The historical evidence suggests that he would have spoken Aramaic only.  Therefore, he was not a "polyglot". 


Edited by islamispeace - 07 January 2012 at 3:49pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Bowman Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2012 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Bowman

The Koran is not even written in the original languages that the prophets spoke, brother.  How then can any of it be original? 
 


First of all, why does that even matter? 
 
 

For the very plain fact that the Koran points the reader back to the previous scriptures.


 
 
Originally posted by islamispeace


Second, since when did the other prophets speak Greek? 
 
 

The language of the Biblical prophets is recorded in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. 

 

The closest that the authors of the Koran could do was to Arabicize words from these languages – proving, once again, that Arabic was not the original revealed language.

 

 
 
 
 

Originally posted by islamispeace



Third, unlike Judaism and Christianity,  Islam does not believe that God is so narrow-minded as to send only Jewish prophets.  Islam states that God sent prophets to all nations, in their own languages.  The Quran states:

"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom" (14:4). 
 
 

No mention of Arabic in this ayah.

 

Further, the language used is spelled-out in the very next ayah which tells us about Moses from the Holy Bible.  Most certainly not Arabic – but Hebrew!  Moses did not speak Arabic, brother.

 

The best you can do is just admit that the authors of the Koran translated the Biblical languages into Arabic.

 

You really have no other choice in the matter.

 
 
 
 
 

Originally posted by islamispeace



Originally posted by Bowman

What this forces the Muslim to do is seek out the original revealed languages of the Holy Bible.


How so?  Just because you say so, does not make it so.  What are the so-called "original revealed languages"?  What proof do you have that these languages are "original" or "revealed"? 
 
 
 

This example is an open admission that previous revelation (i.e. the Holy Bible) contained this information...

 

 

   

خلق الله السموت والأرض بالحق إن في ذلك لءاية للمؤمنين

 

Khalaqa Allahu alssamawati waal-arda bialhaqqi inna fee thalika laayatan lilmu-mineena

 

29.44   “allah” he created the heavens and the earth through ‘The Truth’, truly in that previous Revelation to believers.

 
 
 
 

Originally posted by islamispeace



Originally posted by Bowman

Every place in which Jesus is quoted as talking, brother.
 

You still can't seem to understand that the Quran is an Arabic book, so obviously all the stories and narratives will be in Arabic.  So I ask again:  Where does the Quran say that "Jesus spoke Arabic"?
 
 
 

وإذ قال عيسى ابن مريم يبني إسرءيل إني

رسول الله إليكم مصدقا لما بين يدي من التورية

ومبشرا برسول يأتي من بعدي اسمه أحمد فلما

جاءهم بالبينت قالوا هذا سحر مبين

 
 
 
 

Originally posted by islamispeace



The New Testament is written in Greek, yet there is no evidence that the Jews of Jesus' time spoke Greek.  As brother Zainool has shown, the Palestinian Jews predominately spoke Aramaic, not Hebrew or Greek.  If we use your logic, then since the NT uses Greek, we could claim that it means that Jesus spoke Greek.  But such a claim would be premature and downright false since the NT is written is Greek for the simple readon that it's authors spoke Greek, nothing more.  It cannot be used as evidence to claim that Jesus spoke Greek.

Furthermore, your statement to Matt that "Jesus was a polyglot (i.e. He spoke several languages), as revealed in the NT" is an unsubstantiated statement.  There simply is no proof that "Jesus was a polyglot".  The historical evidence suggests that he would have spoken Aramaic only.  Therefore, he was not a "polyglot". 
 
 
 

Jesus was familiar with many languages as evidenced by His repeated quoting from the Septuagint – which was written 100% in Greek.

 

Further, the sign above His cross was in three languages, including Greek.

 

Keep yourself in denial, brother…

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