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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 6:23am
Bi imillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

I think what the indian scholars are talking about is whether using the number 786 for bismillah all the time is bidah not whether the science itself is bidah. This science predates Islam as i understand.

there is a specific incident which i have personaly read where the jews came upto rasul allah and said  your religion will not last more than so and so years he asked them why they said becouse of so and so letters at the begining of a particular surah they mentioned, which add up to i think it was 24 years . rasul allah said we also have this letter which added about 100 years according to there system, then he again said we also have this letter which added another few hundred years according to there system. the letters he was using were those at the begining of certain surah's like Alif Lam Ra.

i read this a long time ago and dont remember the exact details, sorry.

Submission.org is the site of a sect known as submitters there leader rashid khalifah claims to be "the messenger of the covenant" read the material writen under the section with this title.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 10:16am

Though I don't disagree with this part of the website that you quoted brother Dayem : "This tradition is not from the time of the Prophet -peace be upon him- or his Sahabah. It developed much later, perhaps during the later 'Abbasid period. We do not know of any reputable Imams or Jurists who used this number instead of the Bismillah. ", but kindly note that as bro rami has also pointed out, the site is not a reliable source especially once he forces his claim to justify the significance of number 19 in Quran and end up saying that it has some extra verses. Its just a word of caution to be carefull while consulting this source.

For bro rami,

Brother, how did you verify this numerical juglary (the one referenced by bro Dayem) is the same as the one you heard in the hadith?

Secondly, there are people who even claim "magic" to be some sort of science, would it justify its legitimacy from within Islam? I don't think so.

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Quote Dayem Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2005 at 2:10am
Well, I dunno how u found out that that site i quoted was not good.....but the truth is it REALLY is not a good site.Just after posting this form, i was surfing that site when I came across there motto:Follow Quran but not Sunnah.Sorry everyone!
"the mooslims! they're heeere!"
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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2005 at 1:47pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

For bro rami,

Brother, how did you verify this numerical juglary (the one referenced by bro Dayem) is the same as the one you heard in the hadith?

Secondly, there are people who even claim "magic" to be some sort of science, would it justify its legitimacy from within Islam? I don't think so.

The jews were assigning neumerical values to each letter, you would have to read the hadith your self to understand it better, but youre right i could be mistaken. I was once at a lecture of a very knowledgable shaykh some time ago and he was explaining this topic, i cant remember what he said exactly but he did mention the hadith and the issue of 768 in the same lecture, that is weak evidence since i cant remember what he said but it is a link.

Legitimacy and actualy existance are tow different issues, magic is not permisable/legitimate in Islam but most certianly it is a science not jumbled pieces of information. Look at many ahadith about the lives of prophets people used to be able to predict the future from the stars this was never denied, it became haram when they began to worship them.

For those thinking it no what people do today regarding the stars is not remotey the same.


Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 14 October 2005 at 3:12pm

magic is not permisable/legitimate in Islam but most certianly it is a science not jumbled pieces of information.

This is very interesting. I never realized that people would categorize magic as 'science', even though we may believe in its existence. Hmm!! Honestly, I don't know how the magic is observable, measureable and repeatable, if it is called a science?

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