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honeto

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Posted: 28 October 2011 at 3:21pm

So, what you make of those who say that the blood of Christ has paid for their sins?
I don't ask names and phone numbers of people who approach me when they are preaching, they are willing to share the word, but not share more than that, kind of like you who is on the forum to bring out your point of view and belief, but are unable to give even your name!
Also, this verse oppose to what you have said, let us look:
John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life."??
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 28 October 2011 at 3:32pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 29 October 2011 at 6:42am

honeto wrote: So, what you make of those who say that the blood of Christ has paid for their sins?

I agree with them, as does the bible.

honeto wrote: I don't ask names and phone numbers of people who approach me when they are preaching...

Well, the next time this happens to you, it will be easy enough to prove them wrong. Simply quote 2 Cor 5:10 to them and let us know how they respond.

hasan wrote: Also, this verse oppose to what you have said, let us look: John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life."??

The English word "judgement" has many definitions. One of them is "a misfortune regarded as inflicted by divine sentence." That is how the word is being used in John 5:24

The NIV translation of the bible makes this more clear:

I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believe him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

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honeto

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Posted: 31 October 2011 at 9:55am

Reepicheep,

yes, we all have our own definitions of things, but there are some standards and each one is free to follow them or not depending on our position and what favors our point of view, but here is what an Engish definition is of "judgment".

Hasan

judg·ment

[juhj-muhnt]

noun

an act or instance of judging.

the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, especially in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of soundjudgment.

the demonstration or exercise of such ability or capacity: The major was decorated for the judgment he showed under fire.

the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind: Our judgment as to the cause of his failure must rest on the evidence.

the opinion formed: He regretted his hasty judgment.

Edited by honeto - 31 October 2011 at 10:06am

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 31 October 2011 at 10:15am

honeto, why did you stop at defintion five? In particular, if we go to your source and look at definition 7, we find:

7. a misfortune regarded as inflicted by divine sentence, as for sin.

I'm curious to know why you think your definition of "judgement" is better than mine. What logical basis do you use to pick your definition?

In any case, you will notice that the NIV translation doesn't even use the word judgement, so your argument is moot.

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honeto

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Posted: 02 November 2011 at 11:30am

Reepicheep,
because there was no 6 or 7.
Let me just post the link as it is so you can see for yourself, there is no 6 or 7 there:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/judgment
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 02 November 2011 at 12:14pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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honeto

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Posted: 02 November 2011 at 11:48am

Reepicheep,
your argument is not strong because the second part of the verse actually put the "Judgment" idea in practice: " but hath passed out of death into life." meaning there will be no accountability or judgement for those.
Also Christian Bibles are always evolving, changing words and understanding. Even though you are right that KJV does not use the word judgment the second part of the verse says it as I mentioned above.
It is interesting however that most of the other Bibles actually use the word "judgement".
Here is an example:
John 5:24
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
24Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life.

John 5:24
Darby Translation (DARBY)
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, that he that hears my word, and believes him that has sent me, has life eternal, and does not come into judgment, but is passed out of death into life.
John 5:24

American Standard Version (ASV)
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.

John 5:24
English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life.

John 5:24
New Century Version (NCV)
24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears what I say and believes in the One who sent me has eternal life. That person will not be judged guilty but has already left death and entered life.

John 5:24
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)
24`I tell you the truth. The person who hears what I say and believes in him that sent me will live for ever. He will not be judged. He has already passed from death to life.

John 5:24
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Life and Judgment

24 " I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.

So dear, the word "judgment" is present and so is the issue that I bring in most of the Bibles out there.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 02 November 2011 at 11:54am

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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honeto

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Posted: 02 November 2011 at 12:12pm

Originally posted by Jack Catholic

Dear Hasan,

We already discussed this on the string titled, "Did the Holy Bible Evolve?" I showed you where your understanding of Christian belief regarding forgiveness of sin was not really what Christians believe. Yet here you are in a new string makeing the same incorrect claims about what Christians believe. If you want to discuss Jesus and the forgiveness of sin, why don't you first learn what Christians actually believe before you attempt to discuss it again. Or are you just trying to create a fight? I think this forum is supposed to be designed for mutual understanding between faiths... Is that your motive for this post?

Allah bless you,

Jack Catholic

Jack,
this is not an incorrect claim rather rather real and vast. Different Christian groups and people may answer it differently. I have heard from many people many different versions of it, as I mentioned above. I would like to know your take on it. How do you believe about Jesus paying for your sins with his blood? Do you believe you are forgiven because of his blood? will you not go through judgment as the Bible states? Those are some valid questions for you to answer Mr. Jack.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 02 November 2011 at 12:13pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 25 November 2011 at 4:29am

Originally posted by honeto

Reepicheep,
because there was no 6 or 7.
Let me just post the link as it is so you can see for yourself, there is no 6 or 7 there:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/judgment
Hasan

Look again. If necessary, click on the "EXPAND" button immediately below definition 5.

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Author	Message
honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 28 October 2011 at 3:21pm
	So, what you make of those who say that the blood of Christ has paid for their sins? I don't ask names and phone numbers of people who approach me when they are preaching, they are willing to share the word, but not share more than that, kind of like you who is on the forum to bring out your point of view and belief, but are unable to give even your name! Also, this verse oppose to what you have said, let us look: John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life."?? Hasan Edited by honeto - 28 October 2011 at 3:32pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 29 October 2011 at 6:42am
	honeto wrote: So, what you make of those who say that the blood of Christ has paid for their sins? I agree with them, as does the bible. honeto wrote: I don't ask names and phone numbers of people who approach me when they are preaching... Well, the next time this happens to you, it will be easy enough to prove them wrong. Simply quote 2 Cor 5:10 to them and let us know how they respond. hasan wrote: Also, this verse oppose to what you have said, let us look: John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life."?? The English word "judgement" has many definitions. One of them is "a misfortune regarded as inflicted by divine sentence." That is how the word is being used in John 5:24 The NIV translation of the bible makes this more clear: I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believe him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 31 October 2011 at 9:55am
	Reepicheep, yes, we all have our own definitions of things, but there are some standards and each one is free to follow them or not depending on our position and what favors our point of view, but here is what an Engish definition is of "judgment". Hasan judg·ment [juhj-muhnt] *noun* 1. an act or instance of judging. 2. the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, especially in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of soundjudgment. 3. the demonstration or exercise of such ability or capacity: The major was decorated for the judgment he showed under fire. 4. the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind: Our judgment as to the cause of his failure must rest on the evidence. 5. the opinion formed: He regretted his hasty judgment. Edited by honeto - 31 October 2011 at 10:06am
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 31 October 2011 at 10:15am
	honeto, why did you stop at defintion five? In particular, if we go to your source and look at definition 7, we find: 7. a misfortune regarded as inflicted by divine sentence, as for sin. I'm curious to know why you think your definition of "judgement" is better than mine. What logical basis do you use to pick your definition? In any case, you will notice that the NIV translation doesn't even use the word judgement, so your argument is moot.
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 02 November 2011 at 11:30am
	Reepicheep, because there was no 6 or 7. Let me just post the link as it is so you can see for yourself, there is no 6 or 7 there: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/judgment Hasan Edited by honeto - 02 November 2011 at 12:14pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 02 November 2011 at 11:48am
	Reepicheep, your argument is not strong because the second part of the verse actually put the "Judgment" idea in practice: " but hath passed out of death into life." meaning there will be no accountability or judgement for those. Also Christian Bibles are always evolving, changing words and understanding. Even though you are right that KJV does not use the word judgment the second part of the verse says it as I mentioned above. It is interesting however that most of the other Bibles actually use the word "judgement". Here is an example: John 5:24 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA) 24Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life. John 5:24 Darby Translation (DARBY) 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, that he that hears my word, and believes him that has sent me, has life eternal, and does not come into judgment, but is passed out of death into life. John 5:24 American Standard Version (ASV) 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. John 5:24 English Standard Version Anglicised (ESVUK) 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24 New Century Version (NCV) 24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears what I say and believes in the One who sent me has eternal life. That person will not be judged guilty but has already left death and entered life. John 5:24 Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE) 24`I tell you the truth. The person who hears what I say and believes in him that sent me will live for ever. He will not be judged. He has already passed from death to life. John 5:24 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) Life and Judgment 24 " I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life. So dear, the word "judgment" is present and so is the issue that I bring in most of the Bibles out there. Hasan Edited by honeto - 02 November 2011 at 11:54am
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 02 November 2011 at 12:12pm
	*Originally posted by Jack Catholic* Dear Hasan, We already discussed this on the string titled, "Did the Holy Bible Evolve?" I showed you where your understanding of Christian belief regarding forgiveness of sin was not really what Christians believe. Yet here you are in a new string makeing the same incorrect claims about what Christians believe. If you want to discuss Jesus and the forgiveness of sin, why don't you first learn what Christians actually believe before you attempt to discuss it again. Or are you just trying to create a fight? I think this forum is supposed to be designed for mutual understanding between faiths... Is that your motive for this post? Allah bless you, Jack Catholic Jack, this is not an incorrect claim rather rather real and vast. Different Christian groups and people may answer it differently. I have heard from many people many different versions of it, as I mentioned above. I would like to know your take on it. How do you believe about Jesus paying for your sins with his blood? Do you believe you are forgiven because of his blood? will you not go through judgment as the Bible states? Those are some valid questions for you to answer Mr. Jack. Hasan Edited by honeto - 02 November 2011 at 12:13pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 25 November 2011 at 4:29am
	*Originally posted by honeto* Reepicheep, because there was no 6 or 7. Let me just post the link as it is so you can see for yourself, there is no 6 or 7 there: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/judgment Hasan Look again. If necessary, click on the "EXPAND" button immediately below definition 5.
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