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semar

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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 1:03pm

Originally posted by ZamanH

How about television, video, film, etc these are also human depiction

But no one claims them to be a product of Islamic arts.

Now they are halal, so if someday somehow somebody claims them to be a product of Islamic arts, will be haram?

Originally posted by ZamanH

I watch TV, video but, I don't think that is comparable to adorning walls though pictures of human beings or animals.

The current TV (LCD) can be hang on the wall (many people do), so what is the different?

Originally posted by ZamanH

Though, I consider taking photograph for documentation purposes to be Islamic (but, not otherwise).

In the old days, there was no photo technology yet, so they used hand to record sombody/animal image.

Is there any hadith stated "for documentation is OK, otherwise not OK." ?

Also from your post: we can conclude if you put images in album/book for documentation is ok , but if we put them in a wall is not OK, so the halal/haram's parameter is a wall.

Edited by semar

Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"

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Angel

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Posted: 31 March 2005 at 6:20pm

I thought its just the image of God, that is haram ? no one and nothing else.

But then if you say that God is everywhere, then everything should be banned, trees, rivers, moon, earth, flowers, reading books to etc and etc.

oh why we might not else well be creative because really that is being like God, God is creative and is creator, so initially we should ban our selves and not do anything, lets face it, just writing this post is being creative I am the creator of this post, so am I acting like God in being a creator?

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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herjihad

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Posted: 01 April 2005 at 10:31am

Bismillah,

LOL Angel!

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.

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ZamanH

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Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:02am

As Salaam Alaikum,

Honestly, I don't know about the subject really well. Sculptures and engravings of human-beings and animals are notable by their absence in medievial islamic buildings in India. I have heard two reasons concerning the prohibition - firstly, to prevent shirk; and secondly, to prevent man from claiming that he can duplicate/recreate the beauty in Allah's creation through depicting human-beings and animals in pictures,paintings etc.

Therfore, my personal understanding of the matter is that it is unislamic to depict huamn beings and animals in art merely for the sake of pleasure or entertainment (but, for the sake of information/documentation, its alright).

Edited by ZamanH

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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ZamanH

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Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:12am

Originally posted by herjihad

To be strict in this belief of not displaying the human form, one would have to only read books and magazines, and maybe just watch news and documentaries on TV.

Yes, that is the what I discern about the matter.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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ZamanH

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Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:25am

Originally posted by Angel

But then if you say that God is everywhere, then everything should be banned, trees, rivers, moon, earth, flowers, reading books to etc and etc.

When we say, God is everywhere, it clearly indicates that we mean that His influence is everywhere/all-pervasive; I don't understand how can that mean everyone and everything is Allah.

"oh why we might not else well be creative because really that is being like God, God is creative and is creator, so initially we should ban our selves and not do anything, lets face it, just writing this post is being creative I am the creator of this post, so am I acting like God in being a creator?"

But then, you are not claiming to create life. Are you??

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

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MOCKBA

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Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:28am

We, Muslims, seem to be so pre-occupied with small issues making a weighty thesis out of an alphabet book...

Should we wear pijamas with teddy-bears depicted on them or would it be better to switch to a checkered one despite it resembling crosses... can we allow passports... what about music and movies... and back to pictures... and return to passports and the time passes by and we grow out of our teddy-bear pijamas... and we wonder, where have we gone wrong.

If only we could strive as hard to establish the meaning of Tawheed deep in our hearts and let it navigate our lives.

MOCKBA

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herjihad

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Posted: 04 April 2005 at 6:06am

Bismillah,

The prophet, PBUH, smiled and laughed. Maybe our discussion seems silly, but silly can be good when it is lighthearted and goodnatured.

Tawheed and Taqwa are excellent endeavors. May Allah, SWT, lead us to them.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.

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Author	Message
semar Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 11 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1234	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 1:03pm
	*Originally posted by ZamanH* How about television, video, film, etc these are also human depiction But no one claims them to be a product of Islamic arts. Now they are halal, so if someday somehow somebody claims them to be a product of Islamic arts, will be haram? *Originally posted by ZamanH* I watch TV, video but, I don't think that is comparable to adorning walls though pictures of human beings or animals. The current TV (LCD) can be hang on the wall (many people do), so what is the different? *Originally posted by ZamanH* Though, I consider taking photograph for documentation purposes to be Islamic (but, not otherwise). In the old days, there was no photo technology yet, so they used hand to record sombody/animal image. Is there any hadith stated "for documentation is OK, otherwise not OK." ? Also from your post: we can conclude if you put images in album/book for documentation is ok , but if we put them in a wall is not OK, so the halal/haram's parameter is a wall. Edited by semar
	Salam/Peace, Semar The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full" "1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 31 March 2005 at 6:20pm
	I thought its just the image of God, that is haram ? no one and nothing else. But then if you say that God is everywhere, then everything should be banned, trees, rivers, moon, earth, flowers, reading books to etc and etc. oh why we might not else well be creative because really that is being like God, God is creative and is creator, so initially we should ban our selves and not do anything, lets face it, just writing this post is being creative I am the creator of this post, so am I acting like God in being a creator?
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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herjihad Senior Member Joined: 26 January 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2473	Posted: 01 April 2005 at 10:31am
	Bismillah, LOL Angel!
	Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:02am
	As Salaam Alaikum, Honestly, I don't know about the subject really well. Sculptures and engravings of human-beings and animals are notable by their absence in medievial islamic buildings in India. I have heard two reasons concerning the prohibition - firstly, to prevent shirk; and secondly, to prevent man from claiming that he can duplicate/recreate the beauty in Allah's creation through depicting human-beings and animals in pictures,paintings etc. Therfore, my personal understanding of the matter is that it is unislamic to depict huamn beings and animals in art merely for the sake of pleasure or entertainment (but, for the sake of information/documentation, its alright). Edited by ZamanH
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:12am
	*Originally posted by herjihad* To be strict in this belief of not displaying the human form, one would have to only read books and magazines, and maybe just watch news and documentaries on TV. Yes, that is the what I discern about the matter.
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

ZamanH Guest Group Account Suspended Joined: 21 July 2004 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 448	Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:25am
	*Originally posted by Angel* But then if you say that God is everywhere, then everything should be banned, trees, rivers, moon, earth, flowers, reading books to etc and etc. When we say, God is everywhere, it clearly indicates that we mean that His influence is everywhere/all-pervasive; I don't understand how can that mean everyone and everything is Allah. "oh why we might not else well be creative because really that is being like God, God is creative and is creator, so initially we should ban our selves and not do anything, lets face it, just writing this post is being creative I am the creator of this post, so am I acting like God in being a creator?" But then, you are not claiming to create life. Are you??
	An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. There will be more women in hell than men. ..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191) Heaven lies under mother's feet
	IP Logged

MOCKBA Moderator Group Joined: 27 September 2000 Location: Malaysia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1410	Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:28am
	We, Muslims, seem to be so pre-occupied with small issues making a weighty thesis out of an alphabet book... Should we wear pijamas with teddy-bears depicted on them or would it be better to switch to a checkered one despite it resembling crosses... can we allow passports... what about music and movies... and back to pictures... and return to passports and the time passes by and we grow out of our teddy-bear pijamas... and we wonder, where have we gone wrong. If only we could strive as hard to establish the meaning of Tawheed deep in our hearts and let it navigate our lives. MOCKBA
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herjihad Senior Member Joined: 26 January 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2473	Posted: 04 April 2005 at 6:06am
	Bismillah, The prophet, PBUH, smiled and laughed. Maybe our discussion seems silly, but silly can be good when it is lighthearted and goodnatured. Tawheed and Taqwa are excellent endeavors. May Allah, SWT, lead us to them.
	Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
	IP Logged

Topic: Suleyman’s Gallery
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