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human
 
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Quote human Replybullet Topic: Fate of non-believers
    Posted: 06 September 2005 at 2:00pm

This is directed to Israfil, Mockba and others who believe that God prefers Muslims to other human beings.

Recently I visited Salt Lake City and I took a tour of the Mormon Temple. Actually it was the temple square, not the temple itself, because temple is open only to mormons. Anyhow, there was this young lady of about 18-20 years, who gave us a nice tour of the church, and other exhibits in the locality. What impressed me about her was that she was a college student who had dedicated one year of her life as a volunteer to spread the Mormon message. Someone who looked like a skeptic asked her a question. It is all very well that God takes care of those who have been baptized. How about those who have never heard of the Bible and specifically the Mormon Bible. Are they condemned to go to hell? She replied very cheerfully that that is not the case. Once they die, they are baptized by God and taken to heaven.

Same question could be asked of Islam. What about those people who have never heard of the Quoran and Mohammed. Are they condemned to hellfire even if they follow a virtuous life?

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mouhssine4
 
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Quote mouhssine4 Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2005 at 2:10pm

Same question could be asked of Islam. What about those people who have never heard of the Quoran and Mohammed. Are they condemned to hellfire even if they follow a virtuous life?

salam upon those who had followed the right path

your question is very fair and the answer will be fair also i hope

you see my freind one of the attribut of God is fairness and just

so in the day of the judgment all judgment are gonna be fair and just

otherwise we would not be among the God of all things

therefore any humaine being will have a chance in his or her life to know the truth, per example you, you are learning about islam by visiting this site, will know it some other ways

i hope i was helpfull

 

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tracy
 
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Quote tracy Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2005 at 2:53pm


 Well i hope i get to heaven i may have to knock the door a few times but he will let me in

At the end of the day WHAT EVER your beliefs may be as long as you live a good life and do not follow the evil one the guy in the sky will look after you and i can say that and havent read the koran

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mouhssine4
 
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Quote mouhssine4 Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2005 at 3:03pm

salam upon those who had followed the right path

hi tracy we are all born with what you have said it is called fitra in Islam it is something that distingush us from other being the problems is that we need tool to acomplish the task the one of being good and protecting ouself from evil

and that has been the role of all prophet peace be upon them

and the last version of the "humans soul operating system" is the Holy Coran, it has tools  that if followed will knock off evil and his children

 

i like what you have said " i may have to knock the door a few times "LOL,  you are right nobody knows if he will be lucky to get in or not but we all count on God being mercifull

take care

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2005 at 5:12pm
>>>>This is directed to Israfil, Mockba and others who believe
that God prefers Muslims to other human beings.<<<<<<

Human,

My apologies if I don't have the luxury of answering your
questions right away. Now you posed the statement of God
preferring Muslims over other humans now let's get something
clear. First off I never said God prefers Muslims. If I did mention
this then i contradict the eschatology of ahadith which mentions
that Muslims will be in hellfire, if such a God prefers Muslims
over other humans then such a God would not allow his people
to suffer (in accordance to tradition of Hadith).

Second I have always said and believe that good people can
go to heaven but in such a matter that I present that I have to
clarify that Heaven, which is the realm where one is nearest to
God is a step that much be acheived through the faithful actions
of the individual alone. Now I cannot get around the theology
that those who believe in God's Oneness are those who
according to Quranic theology will acheive paradise.

Now in matters of not having faith I cannot comment because
as I have mentioned before God has mercy and only he knows
their fate. As for those of other religions other non-monotheistic
religions the same rules apply. when it comes to other
monotheistic faiths of the Abrahamic tradition or non-
Abrahamic tradition (such as Sikhs and Zoroastrians) I would
say they are among those who have the knowledge that the
Qur'an mentions and if pious will be those among the righteous
in paradise. Human I can comment what Quranic philosophy
would allow me.

The Qur'an does mention that those who reject Allah and that
the religion of Allah is Islam. but you have to understand that
Islam is not just composed of the Shahada but also other
elements one I'd like to mention which is Tawhid (Oneness of
God). Now if other religions hold this as an essential attribute to
the structure of their religion then I see nothing contrary to the
Qur'an admitting them into paradise. There is more to it but I
just wanted to clarify that point.

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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2005 at 6:27pm

Originally posted by Israfil

>>>>
Islam is not just composed of the Shahada but also other
elements one I'd like to mention which is Tawhid (Oneness of
God). Now if other religions hold this as an essential attribute to
the structure of their religion then I see nothing contrary to the
Qur'an admitting them into paradise. There is more to it but I
just wanted to clarify that point.

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)

 

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

 

"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)

 

The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.

In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'

Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".

Indeed sometimes we stray from the Straight Path because we are not implementing the second part of the shahaadah in the proper way.  When we testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah we are testifying and stating our belief that the Prophet Muhammad (saw) was chosen by Allaah to be His Messenger and to convey His Message. Allaah says in the Qur'aan: "And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and He chooses" (al-Qasas, 68) Allaah creates and has power to do all things. Allaah specifically chose the Prophet Muhammad (saw) to be His Messenger. In another verse, Allaah says, "Allaah knows best with whom to place His Message" (al-Anaam, 124) This automatically implies some characteristics of the Prophet Muhammad (saw) as obviously Allaah would not choose one who is treacherous or lying to be His Messenger. Allaah would not choose anyone for such an important mission whom He knew would not convey the message or who would use the position to his own advantage. If anyone claims that the Prophet (saw) did not actually convey the entire message or that he distorted it in any way, he is actually saying that Allaah did not know who was the correct or best person to be a messenger. This is obvious disbelief.

It is obligatory upon everyone from the time of the Prophet (Saw) until the Day of Judgement to believe and follow the Prophet (saw). If the message of Islaam clearly reaches a person and he still refuses to believe in and follow the Prophet (saw), he is a disbeliever and will be in the Hellfire forever - unless he repents and embraces Islaam. However, this also implies that the Prophet's teaching and his sunnah are valid and obligatory upon all of mankind. That is, his example and teaching was not simply for the people of Arabia at his time. Instead, it is just as valid and just as important for each and every Muslim today, whether he be in New York or Malaysia. The Prophet (saw) has been sent to all of us. His example and teaching is for all of us. Some people seem to try to resist the idea that they have to follow the Prophet (saw).

There is no need for us to turn to the books of the Jews or Christians. Indeed, the Prophet (saw) told Umar when he saw him reading the Torah, that if the Prophet Musa were alive at his time, he would also have to follow the Prophet Muhammad (saw). There is no need for us to turn to the Greek philosophers to learn about our theology. There is no need for us to turn to the philosophers, the psychologists, the feminist leaders or the right wing leaders of today or anybody else for us to get guidance. All that we need is to be found in the Qur'aan and Sunnah. We testify to that fact. We bear witness that the Prophet (saw) conveyed the entire message. This is all part of the meaning of our shahaadah. When we declare, "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah", we are also declaring that he is the final prophet sent by Allaah. Allaah says in the Qur'aan, "Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the Last of the Prophets" (al-Ahzab, 40)

 It is very strange that some people can declare the testimony of faith and declare that Muhammad is the Messenger and Prophet of Allaah yet at the same time they do not consider him an example of the way of life that a believer should follow. Not only do they not take him as an example for themselves, they actually oppose others who do take the Prophet (saw) as their example. This is nothing but a clear sign that such a person does not have a clear understanding of the meaning and implications of the testimony of faith that he made. May Allaah forgive us all. The Prophet (saw) said, "I swear by Allaah that I am the most fearful of Allaah and most conscious of Him than all of you. But I also [as part of my sunnah] fast and break my fast, pray and sleep [at night], and marry women. Whoever turns away from my sunnah is not from me [i.e. is not one of my followers]." (al-Bukhaari). In this hadith, the Prophet (saw) explained that he is the most fearful of Allaah and God-conscious. Therefore, there is no excuse for anyone not to follow his example and guidance. But he also stated that the one who turns away from his practice and example is not from him. That is, he is not one of his true followers. One cannot claim to believe and accept the Prophet Muhammad (saw) and then at the same time refuse to accept his life and example that one must strive to emulate and follow. Also when we make the shahaadah, it becomes obligatory upon us to give the Prophet (saw) our complete obedience. Allaah has made this very clear in numerous places in the Qur'aan. For example, He says; "O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger!" (an-Nisa, 59) Allaah also says, "He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah, but he who turns away, then We have no sent you (O Muhammad) as a watcher over them" (an-Nisa, 59) In addition to obedience to the Prophet (saw) we must also accept him as a judge - meaning that whatever the Prophet has decreed, decided or ordered, we must accept his decision and accept it completely without any feeling of ill-will in our hearts toward what he has decided. This is also very clear in the Qur'aan. Note the following verses "But know, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) will full submission." (an-Nisa, 65) And "If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you truly believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination." (an-Nisa, 59).

 

 

 

 

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MOCKBA
 
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 06 September 2005 at 8:07pm

Bismillah

Great post, Abuaysha. Strong and valid support. 

Our final destination is known to Allah alone, indeed. And Allah has Himself made numerous mentions in the Quran which clearly point to us what are the main qualities of those who will be permitted enter Paradise and of those who will be rejected and thrown into Hellfire.  

The problem is that some people prefer to think that no-matter what they do, whether they believe or disbelieve - their destination is happiness. So, they invented a shortcut and issued themselves license to do whatever they want as long as they "think" it is good. They claim that someone has already paid for their sins... and no matter what, the moment they die they are taken to heaven. It is something like, "if you did not study in university just come and see me and i will issue you whatever degree you like"... only that its a fake. 

This because they say: "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days": For their forgeries deceive them as to their own religion. (3:24 Quran)

There are also some who try to comprehend God and His attributes by a limited intellect they have been endowed with and without reference to the Quran (the purest source of guidance for mankind)and authentic ahadeeth. They consider Quran and hadith as a secondary source of knowledge relying heavily on what they assume to be their "wisdom".

If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). (3:85 Quran) 

As far as those who have never heard of Islam Allah is indeed the Most Just and will judge their fate in ways that are most just.



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Lameese
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Quote Lameese Replybullet Posted: 07 September 2005 at 1:38am

What about Muslims who turn people away from Islam with their attitudes? What will Allah do for them?

Just curious.

 

Lameese

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