Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Tanakh vs. NT - Confirmation or Contradiction? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 17 Next >>
Author Message
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1639
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2011 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by Jack

Ahhhh, Piecie Boy, there you go, trying to twist and turn my words to make make yourself look victorious when in fact you are still as pathetic as you always were.  I never said that I would prove that the "Holy Trinity" teaching was present in the Tanakh.


Well, then you are wasting everyone's time Jackie boy!  I asked for proof that the teaching of the trinity was present in the Tanakh.  If you are not trying to answer the question, then you are going off on tangents.  As I said, I am not interested in Church propaganda on the specifics of the trinity concept.  I am interested in whether the Tanakh agrees with the NT on the concept of the trinity.  That is the topic of the thread, whether the Tanakh is really in agreement with the NT as Christians claim.  If you can't answer the question then don't waste everyone's time and let someone else try to answer.  So far, my question has yet to be answered by anyone.  Is the trinity concept present in the Tanakh?  If not, why do Christians claim that it is and that there is no disagreement between the Tanakh and NT?  Try to answer the question or step aside, Jackie boy!

Originally posted by Jack

What I did write, blind man, is the following:  " The word Holy Trinity was used by the early Church to refer to what the Holy Bible does say about Allah."  I do not have to prove that the Tanakh teaches the Holy Trinity, I only have to show where the persons of the Holy Trinity are present in the OT (Tanakh) and I did that quite well.  So you loose, poor pathetic excuse for a scholar that you are, sir.  The Catholic Church is right on, because it accepts all of what is in the Holy Bible, NT and OT (Tanakh).  But you personally do not.  I guess truth is not an issue for you, huh?


What a typical Catholic answer!  Boring! Sleepy

This is the best the Catholic Church can offer isn't it?  It and you don't "have to prove that the Tanakh teaches the...[t]rinity..." In other words, you accept the foreign concept of the trinity only through blind faith.  Apparently, your idea of "proof" of the false doctrine of the trinity in the Tanakh is that the Tanakh "mentions" the "parts" of the trinity in different places; never mind though that it never mentions them as being part of the trinity!  You also did not respond to the fact that the "Holy Spirit" was believed by the Jews to have been created.  You also did not respond to your own Catholic source which admitted that the person of the "son" was "obscurely" mentioned in the Tanakh.  All of this serves as evidence that the Tanakh never taught or even hinted at the trinity. 

Originally posted by Jack

Look above, blind man, at what I said I would do and where the term in question comes from and what its purpose is.  But, oh my, here it comes again:  And a third time: Where in the Tanakh is the concept of the trinity mentioned or even hinted at?"  TongueWant a bandaid for that boo boo on your head?LOLLOLLOLCry Man, I'm laughing so hard at your stubborn st***pidity that it has brought me tears.
    

I love it how you are trying to save face and avoid embarrassment by using the emoticons!  It truly is very entertaining!  Bravo, Jack!  Encore!  Encore!  ClapClapClap

My simple question still remains unanswered.  I don't have to ask it again because I already did above!  So, don't worry.  Wink

Originally posted by Jack

Ahhh, there you go interpreting your own stuff into the mouths of others again.  I did not say that the Trintiy was accepted by the Jews.  What a dull headed monkey you are, silly man.  I simply showed that the Jews recognized in the Tanakh the existence of the Holy Spirit.  At least the Jews knew Allah this much, as Christians do.  Muhammad, on the other hand, denied the very existance of the Holy Spirit.  So much for knowing Allah, huh?Wink


No, no, no Sasquatch.  You said clearly that the Jews and Christians understood Allah (swt).  Don't blame me for your lack of clarity. 

Even if the Jews did recognize the existence of the Holy Spirit, which I never questioned, you have yet to respond to the fact that they also recognized that the Holy Spirit was created!  You Christians deviated from this belief and decided that the Holy Spirit had always existed.  Thank you  for providing more evidence of the contradictions between Jewish beliefs and Christian ones! 

Originally posted by Jack

Congratulations!Clap  You have just exposed your blindness so loudly and clearly.  Read in the Holy Bible what Jesus says about blind men, IslamisPeace.  How can anyone take you seriously now.  Why, I bet you could look right at an elephant and say that it was not there.LOL Can't get any st***pider than that!


Sure, sure Jackie!  Whatever you say!  It is becoming obvious that you will never answer my question or make an actual response to my points but will instead resort to these entertaining posts filled with insults!  I love it!  Keep it coming!  To here you say that I am "st**id" is music to my ears!  It would be like hearing George Bush say that I am "st**id"! 

Originally posted by Jack

Oh, yes, correction, you chose not to read the link I provided due to your own laziness.  So you are blind, st***pid, and lazy.Sleepy What a sad combination to have as character traits. Cry
 

Keep it coming!  I love it!  You are exposing yourself as the hypocrite and simpleton that you are!  As I said, I am not going to read a bunch of links since you are too lazy to do the work yourself and answer the question.  I asked a question, I expect an answer not a link!  Its very simple. 

Originally posted by Jack

And you know what, I wish you would.  They would be so much more informative than your ranting, sour, whiny, pathetic posts where you bash your head repeatedly against a proverbial wall and LOL like a raving madman claiming that what is made clear and obvious is not really there.  Then you claim that those who can see what is clearly there are on drugs and halucinating.  You can't get a more pathetic post than that.Big%20smileClapDead
 

LOL Oh the hilarity!  I know better than to give a bunch of links as my "answer" to a question.  That is the sign of a person who really isn't interested in discussion.  Why would I give you links to read when I can answer the question myself?  At most, the links that I would give would be when I referenced someone else's work which is how it is done in the academic world.  I know that means nothing to you, but it does to me. 

Originally posted by Jack

Then you post the evidence of your hazy vision once again, "And amazingly, you have yet to provide any evidence of the trinity!"  Ha.... aha....hahaLOL!


And you have yet to answer the question.  Here is the sequence again for your entertainment:

Islamispeace: Where in the Tanakh is the trinity mentioned?

Jack: Dah, well the Tanakh mentions the Holy Spirit.  So it mentions the trinity, dah...

Islamispeace: But that doesn't answer the question.  Where does the Tanakh state that God is three in one?  Also, the Holy Spirit, according to Jewish sources, was created whereas the NT states that it is uncreated? 

Jack: Dah, I already explained it to you.  You just can't see.  Pray and be patient, dah, and it will come to you.  Dah...

Islamispeace: Riiight...LOL

/End sequence

Come back to earth Jack! 

Originally posted by Jack

I know that Allah will bless you anyway,


Alhamdulillah, He has blessed me and I am thankful!  He has blessed me with faith and reason.  He had blessed me with knowledge and intelligence.  He has blessed me with the tools to expose false and fraudulent beliefs.  He has blessed me with the tools to expose ignoramuses such as yourself!  I am indeed blessed and I am thankful!  May He bless you too with all of these soon!  Ameen! Big%20smile
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1639
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2011 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by Kish

**Again, you really have to scrutinize my posts before posting it, huh? Trying to find the answers islamispeace for a rebuttal? Even if one person like yourself reads it, it has been accomplished! This is just way to easy**

 
Originally posted by islamispeace

There are, of course, many places they agree, but the existence of even one place where they disagree would call into question the Christian claim that they are in total agreement. 

If, such is the case the same would hold true with the Quran compared with the Tanakh, correct? Was Allah the God of Moses (Jahweh Elohim) Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Israel? A resounding NO! Allah is lord of the Ka’ba who has no son.  

Why then do Muslims believe the text of the Bible has been corrupted?

The Quran declares the Bible to be a true revelation of God and demands faith in the Bible. Sura 2:40-42,126,136,285; 3:3,71,93; 4:47,136; 5:47-51, 69,71-72; 6:91; 10:37,94; 21:7; 29:45,46; 35:31; 46:11

A)             A)All these above texts presuppose the availability of the true revelation of  God to the people of Muhammad’s day. Sura 3:71,93; 10:94; 21:71

B)     A true Muslim is obliged to believe in all the revelations of God. Sura 2:136; 4:136; 29:46

C)     The Quran makes no distinction between God’s revelations Sura 2:136

The Qur’an claims that NO ONE can change the Word of God. Sura 6:34; 10:34

Why Do Muslims Believe The Bible Is Corrupted?

In 1064, Ibn-Khazem, FIRST charged that the Bible had been corrupted and the Bible falsified. This charge was to defend Islam against Christianity because Ibn-Khazem come upon differences and contradiction between the Bible and the Quran. Believing, by faith that the Quran was true, the Bible must then be false. He said, "Since the Quran must be true it must be the conflicting Gospel texts that are false. But Muhammad tells us to respect the Gospel. Therefore, the present text must have been falsified by the Christians after the time of Muhammad." His argument was not based on any evidence or historical facts but only on his personal faith, reasoning and desire to safeguard the Quran. This led him to teach that,

"The Christians lost the revealed Gospel except for a few traces which God has left intact as argument against them,"
 
How convenient, right? And what an altered-Ego!
 

What I personally find interesting is that many great MUSLIM teachers DO NOT believe the Bible has been corrupted and ACCEPT the authenticity of our PRESENT New Testament texts.

 

a.   Ali al-Tabari (died 855) accepted the Gospel texts

b.   Amr al-Ghakhiz (869) accepted the Gospel texts

c.   BUKHARI (810-870) accepted the Gospel texts (he gathered some of the earliest 

      tradition of Islam quoted the Quran itself to support his belief in the text of the Bible

      Sura 3:72,78)

d.   Al-Mas'udi (956) accepted the Gospel texts  

e.   Abu Ali Husain Bin Sina  (1037) accepted the Gospel texts

f.   AL-GHAZZALI (1111) accepted the Gospel texts (probably the greatest Muslim scholar

     he lived after Ibn-Khazem but did not accept his teachings)

g.  Ibn-Khaldun (1406) accepted the Gospel texts (he lived after Ibn-Khazem but did not

     accept his teachings but rather believed the earlier Islamic teachers.)

h.  Sir Sayyid Ahmad Khan, founder of the Aligarh College "In the opinion of us

     Mohammedans it is not proved that corruption (tahrif-i-lafzi)...was practiced.

     … accepted the Gospel texts

i.  Fakhruddin Razi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas, a nephew of Muhammed, "The Jews and  

    early Christians were suspected of altering the text of the Taurat and Injil; but in the opinion of eminent doctors    

    and theologians it was not practicable thus to corrupt the text, because those Scriptures were generally known    

    and widely circulated, having been handed down from generation to generation."

 
WHY do you believe Ibn-Khazem rather than the witness of the Quran, the
word of Muhammad, and these 10 great Muslim scholars who all believed the 
Bible texts to be truthful, Why do you believe in the Gospel of Barnabas but not 
the Gospel of Jesus?
Kish ''';


What a pathetic response Kish!  This one takes the cake!  You are even worse than Jack.  At least he tried to stay on topic.  No where did you attempt to answer the question.  Instead, you tried to weasel your way out by doing what you do best...diverting to unrelated issues.  And you did so with more plagiarized material written by people who are just as dumb and as academically unqualified as you!  Care to answer the question, Kish?  The topic is not the Qur'an.  The topic is whether the Tanakh and NT are in agreement or are actually contradictory. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
Jack Catholic
Male Christian
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 369
Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2011 at 2:24pm
Dear IslamisPeace,
 
All of your garbage postings are an attempt to get to this:  "Is the trinity concept present in the Tanakh?  If not, why do Christians claim that it is and that there is no disagreement between the Tanakh and NT?"
 
Is the concept of the Trinity concept present in the Tanakh?  I answered your question multiple times with this answer:  The elements of the Holy Trinity are present in the Tanakh:  Allah as Creator (Father), Allah's Word in action (St John says that Jesus is Allah's active word become flesh), and Allah's Holy Spirit.  I said that the Holy Trinity is a term designed to summarize what is already in both the Tanakh and the NT.  I then posted samples of Allah's Word in action (which you conveniently ignore, refusing to respond to it) and of Allah's Holy Spirit present and in action, even changing people's lives, all from the Tanakh.  Now, I'm sorry if this is not the answer you are looking for.  Even kindergarteners know that you get what you get and you don't through a fit.  If you claim that this is not the answer to your question, then... too bad...  get over it.  It is evidence enough for Christian belief.
 
About the Holy Spirit, you said, "Even if the Jews did recognize the existence of the Holy Spirit, ... they also recognized that the Holy Spirit was created!"
 
I researched out Jewish beliefs about the Holy Spirit, and Jews call the Holy Spirit "Shekhinah," which means "a minifestation of the divine presence."  I don't see anything here that even resembles a created Spirit.  Where did you say you got you rediculous data again?  Mine is embeded in
Rabbinic Literature and throughout the Talmud.  If you are interested, you can get a thorough and cited explanation of all this on the web page http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071224154058AA8IJKm
 
Your assertions are flailing, my friend.  You are making assertions that don't fit the evidence.  Christianity is solid with the Tanakh and with Jewish belief.  Islam... is not. Maybe you must question the teachings by which you profess your loyalty.  Just a suggestion. 
 
Allah bless,
 
Jack Catholic


Edited by Jack Catholic - 21 October 2011 at 2:45pm
IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1639
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2011 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by Jack

Is the concept of the Trinity concept present in the Tanakh?  I answered your question multiple times with this answer:  The elements of the Holy Trinity are present in the Tanakh:


That does not answer my question nor did you prove that these "elements" point to a triune God.  That is your own interpretation which you have not supported.  

Originally posted by Jack

I said that the Holy Trinity is a term designed to summarize what is already in both the Tanakh and the NT.


Yet it is never explained in the Tanakh and not even in the NT!   

Originally posted by Jack

I then posted samples of Allah's Word in action (which you conveniently ignore, refusing to respond to it) and of Allah's Holy Spirit present and in action, even changing people's lives, all from the Tanakh.


All you showed was a circular argument using mostly passages from the Gospel of John and Church tradition.  You attempted to use Genesis in your defense but you showed nothing from Genesis which even remotely resembles "Allah's Word in action".  I have ignored your pathetic attempts to use mostly the NT in an effort to answer the question because it is irrelevant.  The fact is there is nothing in the Tanakh which supports your view. 

Originally posted by Jack

Now, I'm sorry if this is not the answer you are looking for.
 

It isn't because you are using Church tradition and teachings to garble the passages from the Tanakh.  The question was whether the trinity is present in the Tanakh, not whether the Church believes it is there.  The answer to the latter question is of course 'yes', but what I want is the proof for it.  You have not provided that proof as of yet, only the Church's interpretation of those verses. 

Originally posted by Jack

Even kindergarteners know that you get what you get and you don't through a fit.  If you claim that this is not the answer to your question, then... too bad...  get over it.  It is evidence enough for Christian belief.
 

Exactly!  Christians rely on blind faith and deliberate manipulations!  Thank you for proving this quite succinctly!

Originally posted by Jack

I researched out Jewish beliefs about the Holy Spirit, and Jews call the Holy Spirit "Shekhinah," which means "a minifestation of the divine presence."  I don't see anything here that even resembles a created Spirit.
 

I provided a reference from a Jewish source that states clearly that the Holy Spirit was created.  Are you telling me that the "Jewish Encyclopedia" is not a "Jewish" source?  Come on, Jack.  Seriously?

Here is what it states:

"Although the Holy Spirit is often named instead of God (e.g., in Sifre, Deut. 31 [ed. Friedmann, p. 72]), yet it was conceived as being something distinct. The Spirit was among the ten things that were created on the first day (Ḥag. 12a, b)" [1].

Notice the reference "Hag. 12a, b".  Do you what that it is from?  The Talmud!  So I searched the Talmud and here is what I found:

"Rab Judah further said that Rab said: Ten14 things were created the first day, and they are as follows: heaven and earth, Tohu [chaos], Bohu [desolation],15 light and darkness,
wind and water, the measure of day and the measure of night.16 Heaven and earth, for it is written: In the beginning God created heaven and earth.17 Tohu and Bohu, for it is written: And the earth was Tohu and Bohu.18 Light and darkness: darkness, for it is written: And darkness was upon the face of the
deep;18 light, for it is written: And God said, Let there be light.19 Wind and water, for it is written: And the wind20 of God hovered over the face of the waters.21 The measure of day and the measure of night, for it is written: And there was evening and there was morning, one day.22 It is taught: Tohu is a green line that encompasses the whole world, out of which darkness proceeds, for it is said: He made darkness His hiding-place round about Him.23 Bohu, this means the slimy24 stones that are sunk in the deep, out of which the waters proceed, for it is said: And he shall stretch over it the line of confusion [Tohu] and the plummet of emptiness [Bohu]25" [2 - pg. 41].


Notice it says that the "...wind of God hovered..."  This is an obvious reference to Genesis 1:2 which is traditionally translated as "...Spirit of God hovered..."  Why is "wind" used in the Talmud?  Footnote #20 (after the phrase "and the wind") states the following:

"E.V. ‘spirit’." [3 - p. 43].

As you can see, the Jews believed that the "Spirit" was synonymous with "wind".  This is confirmed by the Jewish Encyclopedia as well:

"Though the nature of the Holy Spirit is really nowhere described, the name indicates that it was conceived as a kind of wind that became manifest through noise and light." [Ibid.]


I am not responsible for your own ignorance and shabby research.  The Talmud clearly states that the Holy Spirit was indeed created.  I have used authentic Jewish sources to prove my case.  Let's see your "source":

Originally posted by Jack

If you are interested, you can get a thorough and cited explanation of all this on the web page http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071224154058AA8IJKm


Oooh, "Yahoo! Answers"!  Yeah, that's a great source for authentic Jewish teachings!  You might as well use Wikipedia!  The ***** called "kismet" also made a false claim.  He/she claimed that:

"The holy spirit is called shechina in Hebrew."

WRONG!  The "Holy Spirit" in Hebrew is "Ruaḥ ha-Ḳodesh".  See the Jewish Encyclopedia for reference.  The word "Shekinah" is associated with the Holy Spirit but it is not the word for "Holy Spirit".  Now if you are still not convinced that the Jews believed that the Holy Spirit was created, I have some more information for you.  In Berakoth 52, the Talmud states:

"BETH SHAMMAI SAY, WHO CREATED etc. Raba said: All are agreed that the word bara12  refers to the past. Where they differ is with respect to the word bore.13  Beth Shammai maintain that bore means 'who will create in the future', while Beth Hillel hold that bore can also refer to the past. R. Joseph cited in objection [to Beth Shammai] the verses, I form the light and create [bore] darkness,14  He formeth the mountains and createth [bore] the wind,15  He that created [bore] the heavens and stretched them forth.16  Rather, said R. Joseph: Both sides are agreed that both bara and bore can refer to the past. Where they differ is as to whether ma'or [light] or me'- ore [lights] should be said. Beth Shammai are of the opinion that there is only one light in the fire, while Beth Hillel are of the opinion that there are several.17  It has been taught to the same effect: Said Beth Hillel to Beth Shammai: There are several illuminations in the light" [4].
      

Keep in mind that "wind" is synonymous with the "Spirit" as I showed above.  The phrase "...and createth [bore] the wind..." is taken from Amos 4:13 which states:

"He who forms the mountains, who creates the wind, and who reveals his thoughts to mankind, who turns dawn to darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth—the LORD God Almighty is his name. " (NIV)


Do you know the Hebrew word used for "wind".  It is "ru'ach" which means "spirit".  According to Strong's Concordance Dictionary (a Christian source by the way):

"ruach: breath, wind, spiritOriginal Word: ר֫וּחַ
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Short Definition: spirit

Definition
breath, wind, spirit" [5].
 

Now let's go to Genesis 1, which was referred to in the Talmud quote above:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." (Genesis 1:1-2, NIV)

Do you know what Hebrew words are used here for "...and the Spirit of God..."?  They are "ve·ru·ach elohim" [6]

But wait, here is one more piece of evidence.  One of the few places where the phrase "Holy Spirit" is actually used in the Tanakh is Psalm 51:11 which states:

"Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me" (Psalm 51:11, NIV).

I am sure you know where I am going with this?  What words are used for "Holy Spirit"?  Yes, the words used are "ve·ru·ach ka·de·she·cha" [7].   

The same word is used for "wind" and "Spirit".  Therefore, they are synonymous.  With all this evidence taken together, it should be clear that the Spirit/Wind is clearly referred to as being created. 

Originally posted by Jack

Your assertions are flailing, my friend.  You are making assertions that don't fit the evidence.  Christianity is solid with the Tanakh and with Jewish belief.  Islam... is not. Maybe you must question the teachings by which you profess your loyalty.  Just a suggestion.
 

This is clearly false in light of the above evidence, my friend.  Will you admit that you were in error?  I am giving you another chance to show that you are capable of objectivity.  If you do, I promise I will show you more respect.  One of my pet peeves is with people who refuse to look at the evidence and instead pretend that nothing has been proven even though the evidence is solid.  That is what irritates me most about you which is why I don't take you seriously when debating with you.  But, I am willing to let bygones be bygones.  However, it all depends on how you respond to the above evidence.  The Holy Spirit was created, according to the Jews and all Jewish sources.  Your "Yahoo! Answers" source gave false information and cannot be accepted as a valid source anyway since it is no more credible than an article from Wikipedia.  It also failed to realize that the Talmud (the same source it selectively uses) clearly states that the "Holy Spirit" was created.  I await your reply...


Edited by islamispeace - 22 October 2011 at 8:52pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1639
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 28 October 2011 at 7:50pm
So Jack, are you still pondering as to how to respond to my last post or are you giving me the silent treatment?  If you are trying to quietly move away from this thread, give me some hint so I can move on to listing more evidence of how the NT contradicts the Tanakh.  I am not going to push you to make a response if you don't want to.  Just let me know and I will leave you alone.  
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
Reepicheep
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 06 November 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 272
Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2011 at 7:08am
islamispeace wrote:  move on to listing more evidence of how the NT contradicts the Tanakh.
 
Just to clarify your english: you still haven't provided us with an example of a contradiction, so it is obviously incorrect of you to claim that you will provide us with "more" examples.
IP IP Logged
honeto
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2397
Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2011 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Jack Catholic

Dear Hasan,








 

You asked for a few verses that declare God to be a Trinity.  But Hasan, I already told you in that very long post (made long by the verses I posted, not by explanation) that the elements of the Trinity are clearly there.  The Catholic Church simply decided make a title term to refer to it.  It is the term that Muhammad argues with because he doesn't show in the Qur'an that he truly knows what the term means.

 

The verses you are looking for are in the post I presented.  They are classified into three groups, those that show Allah as a creater/father figure, those that present the words of Allah followed by the action they emit (these words are Jesus before He took on flesh per the Gospel of John chapter 1), and those that speak of the Holy Spirit (or one of the appearances of the Holy Spirit).  All of these are in my post.  If you'd like just a few verses to discuss, feel free to pick some.  But you'll never get a straight answer to your question because there isn't one.

 

Perhaps you need to change your question...

 

Allah's blessings to you,

 

Jack Catholic

Jack,
I don't mean to be be rude, but who are you trying to kid here, yourself or me and many more who have asked you to simply show the verses that describe God as a three in one, a Trinity. I know the verses already that say God is One. I know of the verses that say you should not make images or statues of God or any living thing. If God was three in one, as you say, God will tell us that. Where did in the OT God says, I am a three in one God. Basic knowledge about God is fundamental, and if God has not mentioned such a thing about Him in the OT, then you have no proof to your claim. It is that clear, why would you try to change that?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
IP IP Logged
Jack Catholic
Male Christian
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 March 2010
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 369
Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2011 at 9:07pm
Dear IslamisPeace,
 
Oh, are you waiting?  I'm soooo sorry.CryLOL Don't get too irritated...Wink
 
Blessings,
 
Jack CatholicWink
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 17 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com