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Islam for non-Muslims
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islam for non-Muslims
Message Icon Topic: My thoughts My view - part 2 Post Reply Post New Topic
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2005 at 3:23pm

Bismillah,

Angel,

There are rules of war that Muslims follow.  When people break these very important rules, they can be considered non-Muslims, or at least hell bound.  You can do a search for the rules.  I need to take a walk with my child right now.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2005 at 6:40am

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

If your questions get specific, so shall my response be.

I am already specific enough and thorough to,  and also I have laid out everything. How much more specific do you want me to be? I cannot do anymore, sorry  

If you truly cannot help, then fine.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2005 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

If your questions get specific, so shall my response be.

I am already specific enough and thorough to,  and also I have laid out everything. How much more specific do you want me to be? I cannot do anymore, sorry  

If you truly cannot help, then fine.

Ironically, your incorrect "thoroughness" is of little value. Missunderstanding ahadith as a Quranic verses is very naive, if nothing else. Don't you think?

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2005 at 5:19am
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

[

Ironically, your incorrect "thoroughness" is of little value. 

thanks very much

I'll just say ignorant then! and anyone who wants to know what is right and incorrect!

Missunderstanding ahadith as a Quranic verses is very naive, if nothing else. Don't you think?

Nope. I'm not muslim so, sorry for this naivity!  

For all the time here and getting to know islam fairly well, the one thing I haven't grasped is the difference or the know how to differentiate between hadith and quran verses.!

Sorry for this inconvenience on your part, afterall I as a non muslim am here to learn where things are incorrect with my understanding.

If you know something and you're not helping because of the mix up I have with the difference of verses then this on your part is silly!

Are my observations in my posts really all wrong ? or do I have some inkling that some are correct ?

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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ummziba
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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2005 at 5:56am

Angel, this may sound really silly, but, perhaps you could really clear up a lot of your own confusion about Islam by reading a good interpretation of the meaning of the Qur'an in English (one with commentary would be most helpful to you - try A. Yusuf Ali, or Muhammad Asad).

That way, you would see for yourself exactly what is in the Qur'an.  Hadith can be a very confusing 'science' even to Muslims - how the string of narrators works, which are weak or strong, reliable sources....  Start with the Qur'an, I think it would really be helpful to you.

After you have read it (perhaps it could be your personal goal for Ramadhan! ), you may find all of your questions or confusion cleared up.  If not, I am sure some of us can try to help you again.  I don't know what other advice to give you at this point .  Read the Qur'an, Angel, then we will see what confusion you still have to clear up, O.K.?

(We are not scholars here, just regular people - so, when in doubt, go to the source! )

Peace, ummziba.

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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2005 at 6:34am

I meantioned it many times, I know you guys here aren't scholars

I thought maybe we all can tackle this together and talk about it and help each other, I guess not.

I don't know what I was thinking  

I do really believe that you guys don't no much about it either, so you can't help, that's fine

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2005 at 8:55am

Hi Angel, I guess it would be not prudent to put everything on the Muslim members of this forum to reply the obivous misunderstandings of someone, even though they have been explictly highlighted. Nevertheless, I may try to pick up your points from your big muddle of postings and see how it can be appropriately replied. I don't know how you want to go about it replies, however, here is your post.

Sure I agree with that but what if one calls themselves something as in this case 'islamic terrorists' proclaim to follow the quran and proclaim to be muslim, then what ?
Are we just going to ignore it ?

No, we must not ignore it. Rather ask for evidence as from where in Quranic verses are they referring to? Secondly, do they have any scholarly opinion on which they have based based their interpretation or at least do they have any logic in their view?



As I have said many times before for muslims, if one proclaims to be muslim you ought to believe them, its in the quran is not ?

Bellieving them in what sense? One may believe in their seriousness but its a totally a different thing if one believe in the correctness of their proclamations. Isn't it? Every claim must be verified against the references e.g. Quran etc, if they provide any.

And in a way islamic terrorists are fighting for islam so really you cannot denouce that either.

That is an assertion without evidence. Would you consider all crusaders fought for Christianity? I don't think so. Do you?


One says they are fighting for true islam and the other says they are also fighting for true islam, which is it, who is right ?

Very simple. Go for evidence they provide from the references and then consult those who know the scripture to find out who is right and who is wrong.


No one stands up to the terrorists and say to them they are wrong nor to the world.
If these terrorists are so wrong then somethings got to be done! But nothing is.

This again a misleading statement. Who are the victims of these terrorists? Aren't the Muslims themselves? You seemed to ignore my argument of highlighting the efforts of Muslim countries, such as Pakistan, to resist such fanatics.



The answer that seems to float around its the west fault and its the US faults, and that they should pull out then the terrorists acts will stop, that is a load of crap. Sorry to say and I'm not enitrely excusing the US or the West, I own they got stuff to be blamed for.

Everytime this issue comes up I bring up the same and what is excepted of a muslim and it never gets refuted.
You can't say that not its islamic.

Kindly see my comments about this on this forum at http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2077& ; ; ;PN=1&TPN=8 and also see page 9 of the same thread.


If the terrorists are so wrong and wrong about the quran, then do something!

You can't say that the media has got it wrong and others got it wrong when the terrorists proclaim otherwise.

Sure the terrorists maybe just a handful among the 1 billion other muslims but surely 1 billion can out do the terrorists if a mass demostration and action is against them (terrorists)

I can tell you now that if things are going the way it is then the terrorists will gain their islam.

While nothing gets done, the terrorists have won anyway and you know what they know it because they know what is prescribe in the quran and what fellow musims must do.

It is not correct to say that nothing is being done by Muslims. Muslims are resisting these people both intellectually as well as physically.



And another thing, how can those in proverty be terrorists they don't have the means to get arms.
The proverty get sucked in by the promise if they fight for islam they will have all the good in heaven, Jannah.

No, it is the well off people who are educated both in islam and qur'an.

It is those (terrorists) that are fighting for islam under the milltary guidence in the qu'ran.

If I am wrong then correct me.

Yes, you are  absolutely wrong in this view. Yes, they may be well off people, but fanaticism is not exclusive to poors; Yes, they may be educated people; however, their education is in everything but the Quran. Not every modern learned Muslim can be taken for granted to be learned in Islam as well. This is especially true for those living in non-Muslim countries.



I want to know why the many muslims who say that the islamic terrorists are wrong and yet do not fight them, are they (terrorists) not fighting against Islam ?
Aren't you suppose to be fighting for islam also ? fight those who fight against you.

O my sister, what kind of fighting are you talking about? As I said, fighting against is going on on both intellectual as well as at physical level, but by the appropriate people. Your assertions are really beyond comprehension.



I wonder what the Prophet would do ?


Angel.

 

He would have united the Muslims against the agressors and oppressors, whether they are so-called Muslim terrorists or any one else.

I hope this would suffice for the time being. Kindly let me know if you want to proceed further from here or want to argue about something that I have mentioned here in this reply. Kindly be specific. Thanks



Edited by AhmadJoyia
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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2005 at 10:11am

Bismillah,

Angel,

I don't support George Bush's terrorism or that of Al-Qaeda.  I know that Allah, SWT, will punish them both because leaders who lead people astray are the most deserving of punishment. (Maybe they'll have to live in little houses beside each other that get flooded a lot.)

You are not the only one who has announced that you think Muslims should stop other Muslims from terrorizing people.  As Ahmad pointed out, the terrorists are terrorizing Muslims more than anyone.  More Muslims have died in Iraq than anyone else!

So, let's pray against evil despots who abuse people, power, money, weapons and time to achieve their goals.

Those same terrorists wouldn't consider me a Muslim, and they wouldn't blink twice to kill me or you if it benefited them.  I don't consider murderers of Muslims and others to be accepted by Allah, SWT.  Why would they be?

(We had a lovely walk, by the way.)

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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