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   A most interesting thread, thank you. Until now I had completely missed the parallels with Taoism and therefore the significance of Muhammad's many trips to China early in his career. 

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nospam001 Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 02 October 2012 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 150	Posted: 04 January 2013 at 9:33pm
	A most interesting thread, thank you. Until now I had completely missed the parallels with Taoism and therefore the significance of Muhammad's many trips to China early in his career.
	God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:38am
	*Originally posted by Taiji_Tao* Take for instance a few interesting points that are often mistranslated Tao Teh Ching: Tao (means God, it is the ancient Chinese word for God, like Allah is Arabic for God), tao (means the Way or path, you use this term when referring to the Way to God or the Path to God), Teh (means highest virtue), Ching (means Classic Holy Text, and only a few books in China have this title). Now when you put the title together Tao Teh Ching you have a profoundly simple yet powerful title: "The Classic Holy text of God's Virtue". This clearly now becomes one of the ancient texts referred to in the Quran as being given to man in ancient or earlier times regarding instruction to other non Arab people.... the Sage Lao Tzu (author of Tao Teh Ching) said ....unless one becomes like a child and returns to that state of simplicity, humbling oneself, lowering oneself to Tao and submitting his will to the Will of Heaven then he cannot enter the gate of Heaven..... If that does not clearly show the same message then I can find more. Peace be with you on your journey. Tom Greetings Tom, This was a very enlightening post. Thank you. "....unless one becomes like a child and returns to that state of simplicity, humbling oneself, lowering oneself to Tao and submitting his will to the Will of Heaven then he cannot enter the gate of Heaven...." This is very clearly the same message that Jesus brought... the message of Christianity. Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 12:11pm
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:03pm
	Some thoughts; This to me is all about the wisdom of the ancients... ancient chinese wisdom ancient Egyptian and hebrew wisdom 16 Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. (Jeremiah 6) I always understood Tao to mean Truth... Truth, Word... God "In the beginning was the Word"... the Word, the Truth, the thing that created and brought into being all matter... Yes, God is not human. God is not anything we with our human minds can describe. God is what... force, energy, Word, Truth, Light... He is all these things is He not? Which is the most ancient of civilizations from which all wisdom flows? Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 12:07pm
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:09pm
	*Originally posted by 786SalamKhan* Asalamualaikum, Taiji_Tao your points interest me but what about Chapter 4 of the Tao Te Ching when it says "It is older than God..." and another statement when it says "The Tao gives birth to One, One gives birth to Two, Two gives birth to Three. Three gives birth to all things..." How are they compatible with Islam when it says God came after the Tao and also the Tao Te Ching denies Oneness of the Tao? I am most interested in the answers to these questions, and in learning more in this discussion. Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 12:10pm
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786SalamKhan Groupie Joined: 30 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 48	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:07pm
	Salam, No one has answered my previous questions about the Tao yet. Also, since when has The Prophet Muhammad ever visited China?
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Taiji_Tao Newbie Joined: 01 September 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 12	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 6:20pm
	Salam, Unfortunately, there are many terrible translations of the Tao Te Ching, especially those by Orientalists. Chapter 4 of the Tao Te Ching says no such thing. Chap. 4 is showing how Tao cannot be used up or filled it is everlasting and the source of the 10,000 things (the entire universe[s]). Regarding Chapter 42: The Tao begot one, One begot two, two begot three, and three begot the ten thousand things.... This is the oldest treatise on evolution and physics, I will rewrite it in the actual terms for better understanding. "The Tao (God) created one [the Original Energy-first building block of life], The One [Original Energy] created two [Yin and Yang], The two [Yin and Yang] created the three [Liang Yi, which is Yin/Yang balanced with the third particle], the three (Liang Yi] created the 10,000 things. A modern term for Liang Yi is the Atom (Protons, Electrons and Neutrons; or Positive [Yang], Negative [Yin] and Neutral)" Would you not agree that God created the original Energy, then created the building blocks of all life including the individual parts of the Atom and that Atoms make up all life in the Universe? This is what the verse is referring to....And yes, very consistent with Islam. In fact, the Taoists and Muslims have a very long history together, very much like siblings. Also, all of the Taoist Classics; especially the Tao Te Ching and I-Ching speak of the Oneness of Tao (God). There is even a similar expression: Muslims say Allah u Akbar (God is Great), in the classics the Taoists said Da Tao (Great God or God is Great). . I hope this helps bring clarity for you.
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Taiji_Tao Newbie Joined: 01 September 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 12	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 6:23pm
	Salam, Indeed. There are several verses in the Hadith where Muhammad (pbuh) stated that Muslims are required to seek knowledge of all things, even if that means going all the way to China to find the knowledge. Not an exact quote, however.
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786SalamKhan Groupie Joined: 30 December 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 48	Posted: 07 January 2013 at 5:22am
	*Originally posted by Taiji_Tao* Salam, Unfortunately, there are many terrible translations of the Tao Te Ching, especially those by Orientalists. Chapter 4 of the Tao Te Ching says no such thing. Chap. 4 is showing how Tao cannot be used up or filled it is everlasting and the source of the 10,000 things (the entire universe[s]). Regarding Chapter 42: The Tao begot one, One begot two, two begot three, and three begot the ten thousand things.... This is the oldest treatise on evolution and physics, I will rewrite it in the actual terms for better understanding. "The Tao (God) created one [the Original Energy-first building block of life], The One [Original Energy] created two [Yin and Yang], The two [Yin and Yang] created the three [Liang Yi, which is Yin/Yang balanced with the third particle], the three (Liang Yi] created the 10,000 things. A modern term for Liang Yi is the Atom (Protons, Electrons and Neutrons; or Positive [Yang], Negative [Yin] and Neutral)" Would you not agree that God created the original Energy, then created the building blocks of all life including the individual parts of the Atom and that Atoms make up all life in the Universe? This is what the verse is referring to....And yes, very consistent with Islam. In fact, the Taoists and Muslims have a very long history together, very much like siblings. Also, all of the Taoist Classics; especially the Tao Te Ching and I-Ching speak of the Oneness of Tao (God). There is even a similar expression: Muslims say Allah u Akbar (God is Great), in the classics the Taoists said Da Tao (Great God or God is Great). . I hope this helps bring clarity for you. Salam, Jazakallah for your answers. But which Translations of the Tao Te Ching do you use? I also suspected that when it says "The Tao became one, one became two, two became three..." it could mean "The Tao created one etc." I'm still not sure about chapter 4, I think I need a better explanation please. I was also already aware of the hadith to go as far as China to seek knowledge although I do not know how that means that the Prophet himself had been to China.
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