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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: "Islam is the only right religion" topic Post Reply Post New Topic
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Usmani
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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 21 September 2011 at 11:24am
Dear Jack,
 

I am pleased to see yours comments here and thankfull of you as well.

 

Quote: have investigated many religions in my lifetime.  I have found one that is not hidden, which has a very simple message that is easy to understand,

 

Brother the concept of trinity is simple? Or this is simple that there only one God. You say that Jesus is die of our sins (Pls. correct me if \i am wrong in the my understanding of your religion anywhere) or this is simple that a messenger is the one chosen by God for the guidance of common people like He chosen from Adam to Abraham till the last messenger Muhammad (May Allah pleased with all of them).No brother Christianity of today is not remained simple any longer.

 

Quote: one that contains the same message as when Allah first gave it to Adam and Abraham before us,

 

Do the people before Jesus (pbuh) knows that he is the son of God? from Adam till Abraham do they recognized Jesus as their savior as you people do? Or they know their Prophet as Preacher/guider of God message of  their time as we do recognized Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?Can you see which religion is similar to them.

 

Qoute: one that does not contain any falsities or contradictions. 

 

I donít want to touch this topic if I could, as others friends here have already brought many things. 

  

Quote: I have discovered to meet your qualifications further tells us that Allah loves us so much that he sent his only son to earth to teach us how to love Allah, then paid the price for our sins so as to give us another chance to love Allah again correctly.  It's a religion of truth with a very simple message, and it's called Christianity. 

 

Oh my God ,brother just suppose you are the King of some country and people there keep breaking the laws and you are very kind towards yours people and wish to forgave them what you will do 1) Kill your son for their mistake and forgave them or 2)you will just forgave them without killing your son. I am sure you will do the second option so why you think God can do such a blander?

 

I apologized if you feel my reply is somewhat insulting. I do not intend to do so but I want to be straight forward on my reply only.

 

May Allah Guide you,

 

Usmani

 

Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Jack Catholic
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Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2011 at 12:18pm
Dear Usmani,
 
No, I do not find your post to be offensive.  But you ask some very intersting questions and make some very thoughtful observations.  I'd like to respond to them,  so will put something together over the next few days, hopefull to be short, but we shall see.
 
May Allah bless you,
 
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Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2011 at 9:01pm

Dear Usmani, thank you for your very polite response.  I do indeed find the concept of the trinity to be simple.  It is a lot like the concept of a man, which I believe you are.  One man can be simultaneously a father, a son, and an uncle.  I also find the concept of a trinity to be as simple as water, which can be solid like ice, or be liquid as water is, or be light and puffy an float in air, as steam or clouds do.  I donít find this complicated.  Just as I donít see it complicated that one God can be Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all at the same time. As himself God is Father of us all through the fact that he created everything (a father in a way is the creator of his children).  God is Son in that he appeared for a time in human form (God is powerful enough to do that, you know).  God is Holy Spirit in that He is present with us and in us and his presence moves and inspires us (think of the English terms:  a spirit of joy, a spirit of sorrow, a spirit of love.)  All of this to me is very simple and easy to understand.  Do you find it to be so?  If yes, explain please.  If not, explain why not please.

 

You ask, dear Usmani, if: ď...the people before Jesus (pbuh) knows that he is the son of God?Ē  So you are asking if the Isrealites or Jews know the future?  These people did not even recognize the prophets that Allah sent them, and often put these prophets to death before they even realized that they were prophets.  To this you then compare to that you recognize a man from 1400 years ago to be a prophet.  You are comparing apples with bananas with oranges.  Because the comparisons do not make sense as you have presented them, I have to say there is no answer.  I donít find that Jesusí claims to be Son of God/Messiah are difficult to understand, nor are they so different from the situation of the Old Testament when the people of God killed their prophets.  In fact, the believers of the O.T. put their prophets to death, and in the same way the Jews put Jesus to death as well.  This is a great similarity between Jesus in the New Testament and the Israelites of the Torah.  I do not know the circumstances of Muhammadís death.  Did the Jews put Muhammad to death, also?

 

You wrote, ďOh my God ,brother just suppose you are the King of some country and people there keep breaking the laws and you are very kind towards yours people and wish to forgave them what you will do 1) Kill your son for their mistake and forgave them or 2)you will just forgave them without killing your son.Ē

 

Usmani, I do not think you quite understand how sin and punishment works.  In the OT, Allah said that all sin leads to death.  He said the punishment for sin is death.  I think Muhammad agreed with Allah in this respect.  Look at the issue of the sin of adultery.  In the Holy Qurían, is not the punishment for adultery death by stoning.

            Now that we have established that the punishment for sin is death, let us look at how sin leads to death.  Let us assume that a manís wife leaves him and immediately marries another.  It is not unusual for some men who love their lives so much to actually be so broken heated that they cannot bring themselves to eat, let alone stop crying, especially if the woman is expecting their first child together.  For some men, a disaster like this would destroy them.  So to continue the example, after many, many, many days of not being able to eat or get himself up to go to work each day, the man could be replaced at work (the death of his job), his health could begin to fail (this is a kind of failure caused by a broken heart and is not unheard of in this world we live in), leading to his eventual death.  In this case, the woman was not guilty of adultery, as she was not married when she met her second husband.  But Jesus says that ending a marriage which Allah has brought about is a sin, and as such a marriage cannot be ended, the womanís then remarrying is a sin, and the sin lead to death (of the husband).  Sin leads to death.

            Now that we have established the truth of the Torah in regards to the relationship of sin and death, we will consider what Jesus did.  The Holy Bible tells us that He died to save us from the power of sin and death over our lives.  Let us look at an example from daily life.  I remember being in the emergency room of a hospital not many years ago where a man had been brought in with severe burns all over his body.  It seems that his home was on fire, and he had gone back in to get his son.  He was overcome by smoke, but rescued by firemen before he died.  His son died from smoke inhalation.  And though the manís body was so badly burned and full of pain, the reason he cried out was that his son had died.  The words that crossed his mouth through his sobs were, ďOh, how I wish it was I who had died and not my son.  Oh, my son, my son.  It should have been me!Ē

            So now we have established that the wages (punishment or basic outcome) of sin is death, and that it is not unusual for a father to so love his son that he would die in his sonís place, is it so great a jump in understanding to know that Jesus who is one and the same as Allah, only in human form, could take the punishment for our sin so we donít have to?  What makes it even simpler to understand is that if we do not belong to Allah, then we default to belonging to the devil.  When we belong to the devil, and then we die, our death is not just from this earthly life, but it is death to an eternity with Allah in heaven.  Allah wills that all of us should belong to Him, but the devil demands what is his, so Jesus simply took our place in dying, and of course, as the devil cannot have God, so Jesus did not go to the abode of the devil when he died.  But he paid the price of our sins, and he offers his action to us as a gift, since to accept his action (gift of love) is to be restored to the favor of Allah.  How are we restored?  Simple, as all of Christianity is simple.  The devilís demand for death as a final end to the Allahís claim to us is met in the death of Jesus on the cross.  This is how and why Allah sent His son (the word of Allah in human flesh) to die for our sin on our behalf.  To me, this is very simple to understand, and it is clearly a fulfillment to the demands of the Torah for sin.

            There you have it:  a wordy yet simple explanation to how Allah loves us so much and longs for us to be His.  It is one of the reasons I love Allah so much.  I hope you can understand what I have written.  If not, feel free to question my words and Iíll do my best to expain.

 

God Bless you, Usmani,

 

Jack Catholic

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Usmani
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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 26 September 2011 at 6:51pm

Dear Jack,

 

Quote:-Dear Usmani, thank you for your very polite response.  I do indeed find the concept of the trinity to be simple.  It is a lot like the concept of a man, which I believe you are.  One man can be simultaneously a father, a son, and an uncle.  I also find the concept of a trinity to be as simple as water, which can be solid like ice, or be liquid as water is, or be light and puffy an float in air, as steam or clouds do.  I donít find this complicated.  Just as I donít see it complicated that one God can be Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all at the same time. As himself God is Father of us all through the fact that he created everything (a father in a way is the creator of his children).  God is Son in that he appeared for a time in human form (God is powerful enough to do that, you know).  God is Holy Spirit in that He is present with us and in us and his presence moves and inspires us (think of the English terms:  a spirit of joy, a spirit of sorrow, a spirit of love.)  All of this to me is very simple and easy to understand.  Do you find it to be so?  If yes, explain please.  If not, explain why not please.

 

Reply:-I do not know from where should I strart; you are actually a very much loving, caring person, that I can see from your reply. Brother believe me too much of love and caring  is not good too, sometimes its stops you from seeing the reality and could be very much harmful for once own self. You got to start realizing this as soon as you can. Do you know who is after this blind love of yours? He is the satan.I am sure you will be laughing on me right now or may be angry but this what I can see clearly.

 

Quote:-You ask, dear Usmani, if: ď...the people before Jesus (pbuh) knows that he is the son of God?Ē  So you are asking if the Israelites or Jews know the future?  These people did not even recognize the prophets that Allah sent them, and often put these prophets to death before they even realized that they were prophets.  To this you then compare to that you recognize a man from 1400 years ago to be a prophet.  You are comparing apples with bananas with oranges.  Because the comparisons do not make sense as you have presented them, I have to say there is no answer.

 

Reply: I ask this because if he is son of God and died for our sins and we must recognized all this to be saved so what about those people came to the earth before Jesus (pbuh) will go to hell, never got the chance to be saved by recognizing Jesus (pbuh) as savior and they wonít get any benefit of his sacrifies.This theory got no truth in it, you look if from any angle one will find it full of flows my friend.

 

Quote: - do not know the circumstances of Muhammadís death.  Did the Jews put Muhammad to death, also?

 

No Prophet Muhammad died his natural death. Actually what I means by saying this these isrealities or Jews are  son of God so do hindu, muslims and any other human who came on earth send by Almighty. Then why Jesus (pbuh) is a savior only for those who believe on him as christen do. According to yours theory ďpunishment for sin is death ďAnd the scarifies of Jesus (pbuh) is for our sin, so why Christians will save only and not others. We might be doing a greater sin in not believing Jesus as savior according to the Christians theory, but why canít Jesus(pbuh) Scarifies cannot save us from hell. This shows that this is a new criteria comes for salvation to be saved from hell and go to heaven. It was never there before Jesus (pbuh).The last Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never endorsed these criteria rather holding same criteria for salvation as was always there. You donít want to accept it this is yours choice but anybody who is serious about finding a true religion this is one of the hurdle in Christianity will stop him to accept Christianity as his religion.

 

Quote: - is it so great a jump in understanding to know that Jesus, who is one and the same as Allah, only in human form, could take the punishment for our sin so we donít have to?

 

Reply:-No you donít have to and all the Christians but I and rest of the non Christians which forms 78% of humanity still have to die, What a tragedy that so power God the creator of all universe creator hell and heaven, his death in human form cannot save the all humanity only 22% .On the other hand devil with no scarifies managed to take 78%.You need to start the lesson from beginning, your post have lots of flaws which are demanding the major repair work my friend. I donít have good writing skill as you have and unable to write whatever I which to.

 

Quote: What makes it even simpler to understand is that if we do not belong to Allah, then we default to belonging to the devil.

 

Reply:-Here I am quite agreed with you. Allah have send us here on this earth to test our self that who belief in Him and follow the way of life as told by His messengers. Devil is created by Allah himself whoís role is to mislead us from Allah way of life. He cannot hold our hand and mislead us but can give us misleading ideas in our mind only. There is always attraction in sins, we got to save our self from his misleading ideas and follow the way of our messenger. Some time we may fall on his trap and may commit sins. What to do now this is also told by his messenger that ask forgiveness to Allah of yours sins no matter how big and how much they are but sincerity is required from heart, Allah will forgive all of yours sins. Allah doesnít have to die for our sins. Doesnít this make sense to you?

 

 

May Allah show me and you the right path.

 

Usmani

 

 

Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 03 October 2011 at 3:31pm
Jack, I am still waiting to see you respond to brother Usmani's question to you:" suppose you are the King of some country and people there keep breaking the laws and you are very kind towards yours people and wish to forgave them what you will do 1) Kill your son for their mistake and forgave them or 2)you will just forgave them without killing your son.Ē
I don't see you gave any direct answer to a very valid question there.
Also, I don't agree that wage of every sin is death. What is the punishment according to the bible for a thief, who steals a cup for example vs one who steals a gold brick. What is the punishment for an adulterer vs a rapist?
What Justice means to you? If these are too challenging for you just most importantly I would like you to address Br. Usmani's question I mentioned above.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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