IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: God’s written instructions for life.

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Kish

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Posted: 04 January 2013 at 1:56pm

"Where do one go for God's written instructions for life?" The answer is the The Gospel! Jesus nor Muhammad never said the Gospel was corrupt.

The Cattle (Al-An`am) 6:154-157, Late Meccan.

"Then We gave Moses the Book complete as to whatever is excellent, and explaining all things in detail, and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. And this (the Qur'an) is a Book which We have revealed, blessed: so follow it and be righteous, that you may receive mercy: lest you should say, `The Book was sent down to two peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study;' or lest you should say: `If the Book (Torah and Gospel) had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.'"

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Caringheart

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Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:02am

Originally posted by Kish

Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?

That is my Question. I read, read and read but I know more is needed to please God fully. To be honest it’s quite wearisome at times reading different sacred books. From what I’ve read God does not speak to us directly as he did in the past so how does he communicate with people today? There are good people in every religion but I’m more of a spiritual person then a religious one. It seems that all the prophets did great things but that’s back then, what about now?

I’m trying to find out which of the sacred books can stand the test of time (scrutinize). Can a person judge a religion by its followers, I guess, I really don’t know at this point. What I do know is that God is omnipotent and he offers something better and I can’t convince myself that he left it all up to chance. So, I’m concerned with the hard core facts, what his written word has to say and I guess everything else will work themselves out eventually.

Where can I find God’s written instructions for life and please provide me with references (texts) so I can research it and compare one with the other and if I have any questions I’ll present them back here on this forum.

Thanks in advance,

Kish

Hi KIsh,

I went back to see the opening question of this thread today.

I can't help noticing what began as a gentle question has turned into harsh arguing. :-(

I want to get back to your original question which I feels shows you are, or at least began, on a similar journey as myself.

I wrote this yesterday and thought to share it here today;

I think I'm sort of a zoroastrian. I think I decided I fit this description when I first read about it, about a year ago. I had never heard of zoroastrian before, and had never realized how many different religions there actually are. I personally do not believe in religion. I believe in God. That is why you do not see me calling myself by any religious label.

But I believe in Jesus, and I believe in the things He had to say, and I believe it is He who will be our Saviour. At least I know it is Him to whom I want to belong when it comes to it.

What I know is this

if we want to serve God and we fight each other we do not serve God, but the devil, and his purposes. As long as we are not embracing one another in brotherly love we are not serving God, and we can not be children of God.

Peace and blessings to you,

Caringheart

Every answer, to every thing, we ever needed to know, is in the Bible.

I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it... but because by it, I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis

Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 3:13pm

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honeto

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Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:48pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Do you ever stop to consider why you are against what Jesus taught of Himself? That you are against Jesus and His message, even though you try to claim Him?

Just wondering.

Caringheart,
look who is talking. Jesus said he has a God, who deny that? you or I? Jesus said, God is grater than him. Who deny that you or I. Jesus said, every word you speak and every act you do will not go without accountability. You deny that or I?
It's time you revisit your ABC's dear.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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honeto

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Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:21pm

Originally posted by Kish

"Where do one go for God's written instructions for life?" The answer is the The Gospel! Jesus nor Muhammad never said the Gospel was corrupt.The Cattle (Al-An`am) 6:154-157, Late Meccan.

"Then We gave Moses the Book complete as to whatever is excellent, and explaining all things in detail, and a guide and a mercy,
that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. And this (the
Qur'an) is a Book which We have revealed, blessed: so follow it and be
righteous, that you may receive mercy: lest you should say, `The Book
was sent down to two peoples before us, and for our part, we remained
unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study;' or lest you should say: `If the Book (Torah and Gospel) had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.'"

Kish,
you provide some truth, and some twists, nothing new from you.

By the way you give an example of what the Quran says regarding the people of the book, this fits your character and what you try to do:
"5:13 (Y. Ali) But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits:"

In the last verse, you inserted the words (torah and gospel). That is not what is meant there.
Here is that verse as it appears, and it is clear what it means.
6:157 (Y. Ali) "Or lest ye should say: "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they." Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy: then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah's signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away. "
This verse is talking about the Quran, not torah or gospel.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Caringheart

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Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:28pm

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Caringheart

Do you ever stop to consider why you are against what Jesus taught of Himself? That you are against Jesus and His message, even though you try to claim Him?

Just wondering.

Greetings Hasan,

I do not deny any of the things you have stated.

Jesus, as the human Son, answered in all things to the Father in heaven... and yet He was one with the Father. "I and the Father are One."

'I laid aside My glory so I may come to you as you are in the flesh...'

⁸Philip' said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

⁹Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

¹⁰Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. ¹¹Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

If you would like to read an extended dissertation on the subject there is a good one here;

http://christianthinktank.com/theoudelphia.html

It's not what I am here for. I am here for conversation, understanding, and hopefully to achieve confidence in acceptance of one another, that we may all serve God and not His enemy.

Salaam,

Caringheart

Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 2:37pm

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Kish

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Posted: 06 January 2013 at 12:39pm

Originally posted by honeto

Kish,
you provide some truth, and some twists, nothing new from you… This verse is talking about the Quran, not torah or gospel.

Hasan are you saying it should read S:6:157 "If the Book (Quran) had only been sent down to us (Muslims), we should have followed its guidance better than they(Jews and Christians).

By the way nowhere does it say here in your Quran that the Message from the Torah or Gospel was corrupt. The allegations came many centuries later.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 06 January 2013 at 3:45pm

There are the religious and there are the un-religious. That is what we should concern ourselves about. It's not about what we are called by, it is about how we conduct ourselves... individually.

To reiterate from my post above... (see full post on Jan. 5th)

"What I know is this;

Edited by Caringheart - 07 January 2013 at 1:59pm

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honeto

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Posted: 07 January 2013 at 3:18pm

CAringheart,
you say you understand but then you deny in next breath. If you see him as human, there is no such thing as human and God. Those were part of Pagan myths that half God half monster or half man half God and so on. Please don't walk away from what you say in one breath that makes sense into something that does not or you will not benefit from your learning.
May God bless,
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Topic: God’s written instructions for life.
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Author	Message
Kish Guest Group Joined: 07 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237	Posted: 04 January 2013 at 1:56pm
	"Where do one go for God's written instructions for life?" The answer is the The Gospel! Jesus nor Muhammad never said the Gospel was corrupt. The Cattle (Al-An`am) 6:154-157, Late Meccan. "Then We gave Moses the Book complete as to whatever is excellent, and explaining all things in detail, and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. And this (the Qur'an) is a Book which We have revealed, blessed: so follow it and be righteous, that you may receive mercy: lest you should say, `The Book was sent down to two peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study;' or lest you should say: `If the Book (Torah and Gospel) had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.'"
	IP Logged

Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:02am
	*Originally posted by Kish* Where can I find God’s written instructions for life? That is my Question. I read, read and read but I know more is needed to please God fully. To be honest it’s quite wearisome at times reading different sacred books. From what I’ve read God does not speak to us directly as he did in the past so how does he communicate with people today? There are good people in every religion but I’m more of a spiritual person then a religious one. It seems that all the prophets did great things but that’s back then, what about now? I’m trying to find out which of the sacred books can stand the test of time (scrutinize). Can a person judge a religion by its followers, I guess, I really don’t know at this point. What I do know is that God is omnipotent and he offers something better and I can’t convince myself that he left it all up to chance. So, I’m concerned with the hard core facts, what his written word has to say and I guess everything else will work themselves out eventually. Where can I find God’s written instructions for life and please provide me with references (texts) so I can research it and compare one with the other and if I have any questions I’ll present them back here on this forum. Thanks in advance, Kish Hi KIsh, I went back to see the opening question of this thread today. I can't help noticing what began as a gentle question has turned into harsh arguing. :-( I want to get back to your original question which I feels shows you are, or at least began, on a similar journey as myself. I wrote this yesterday and thought to share it here today; I think I'm sort of a zoroastrian. I think I decided I fit this description when I first read about it, about a year ago. I had never heard of zoroastrian before, and had never realized how many different religions there actually are. I personally do not believe in religion. I believe in God. That is why you do not see me calling myself by any religious label. But I believe in Jesus, and I believe in the things He had to say, and I believe it is He who will be our Saviour. At least I know it is Him to whom I want to belong when it comes to it. What I know is this if we want to serve God and we fight each other we do not serve God, but the devil, and his purposes. As long as we are not embracing one another in brotherly love we are not serving God, and we can not be children of God. Peace and blessings to you, Caringheart Every answer, to every thing, we ever needed to know, is in the Bible. I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it... but because by it, I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis 　 Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 3:13pm
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:48pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Do you ever stop to consider why you are against what Jesus taught of Himself? That you are against Jesus and His message, even though you try to claim Him? Just wondering. Caringheart, look who is talking. Jesus said he has a God, who deny that? you or I? Jesus said, God is grater than him. Who deny that you or I. Jesus said, every word you speak and every act you do will not go without accountability. You deny that or I? It's time you revisit your ABC's dear. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:21pm
	*Originally posted by Kish* "Where do one go for God's written instructions for life?" The answer is the The Gospel! Jesus nor Muhammad never said the Gospel was corrupt.The Cattle (Al-An`am) 6:154-157, Late Meccan. "Then We gave Moses the Book complete as to whatever is excellent, and explaining all things in detail, and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord. And this (the Qur'an) is a Book which We have revealed, blessed: so follow it and be righteous, that you may receive mercy: lest you should say, `The Book was sent down to two peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study;' or lest you should say: `If the Book (Torah and Gospel) had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they.'" Kish, you provide some truth, and some twists, nothing new from you. By the way you give an example of what the Quran says regarding the people of the book, this fits your character and what you try to do: "5:13 (Y. Ali) But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits:" In the last verse, you inserted the words (torah and gospel). That is not what is meant there. Here is that verse as it appears, and it is clear what it means. 6:157 (Y. Ali) "Or lest ye should say: "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they." Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy: then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah's signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away. " This verse is talking about the Quran, not torah or gospel. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 05 January 2013 at 2:28pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* *Originally posted by Caringheart* Do you ever stop to consider why you are against what Jesus taught of Himself? That you are against Jesus and His message, even though you try to claim Him? Just wondering. Caringheart, look who is talking. Jesus said he has a God, who deny that? you or I? Jesus said, God is grater than him. Who deny that you or I. Jesus said, every word you speak and every act you do will not go without accountability. You deny that or I? Greetings Hasan, I do not deny any of the things you have stated. Jesus, as the human Son, answered in all things to the Father in heaven... and yet He was one with the Father. "I and the Father are One." 'I laid aside My glory so I may come to you as you are in the flesh...' ⁸Philip' said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” ⁹Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? ¹⁰Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. ¹¹Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. If you would like to read an extended dissertation on the subject there is a good one here; http://christianthinktank.com/theoudelphia.html It's not what I am here for. I am here for conversation, understanding, and hopefully to achieve confidence in acceptance of one another, that we may all serve God and not His enemy. Salaam, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 05 January 2013 at 2:37pm
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Kish Guest Group Joined: 07 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237	Posted: 06 January 2013 at 12:39pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* Kish, you provide some truth, and some twists, nothing new from you… This verse is talking about the Quran, not torah or gospel. Hasan are you saying it should read S:6:157 "If the Book (Quran) had only been sent down to us (Muslims), we should have followed its guidance better than they(Jews and Christians). By the way nowhere does it say here in your Quran that the Message from the Torah or Gospel was corrupt. The allegations came many centuries later.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 06 January 2013 at 3:45pm
	There are the religious and there are the un-religious. That is what we should concern ourselves about. It's not about what we are called by, it is about how we conduct ourselves... individually. To reiterate from my post above... (see full post on Jan. 5th) "What I know is this; if we want to serve God and we fight each other we do not serve God, but the devil, and his purposes. As long as we are not embracing one another in brotherly love we are not serving God, and we can not be children of God." Edited by Caringheart - 07 January 2013 at 1:59pm
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 07 January 2013 at 3:18pm
	CAringheart, you say you understand but then you deny in next breath. If you see him as human, there is no such thing as human and God. Those were part of Pagan myths that half God half monster or half man half God and so on. Please don't walk away from what you say in one breath that makes sense into something that does not or you will not benefit from your learning. May God bless, Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged