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Message Icon Topic: God’s written instructions for life. Post Reply Post New Topic
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 29 October 2012 at 2:09pm
Kish,
how were you able to produce a quote from me that was not written by me, how you were able to do that fraud?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2012 at 11:08am
And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim have been able to show and prove by providing an original form of the Torah and Injil other than what we already have today!

Until any Muslim can provide a so called uncorrupted version of the Torah and the Injil other than what we have you will never have peace.

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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 18 November 2012 at 1:13pm

Originally posted by kish

Kish, 
how were you able to produce a quote from me that was not written by me, how you were able to do that fraud? 

Again, human error which I already apologized for, I guess you will keep bringing up the same thing to avoid answering the question. 

I said earlier, The Holy Scriptures have the backing first from God because he said he would preserve them, second from archaeology (Dead Sea Scroll etc.) and third from eye-witnesses (historical testimonies)

Right from the start in the cave Muhammad has none of the above! So again prove what backing the Quran has to prove it is from God  and that the Torah and Injil that we have today is not from God.

Where oh where is your burden of proof?

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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 21 November 2012 at 7:01am
Hi Kish,

I have recently visited this forum and I find some interesting topics. --- I guess one of the basic questions for each of us, is your question, “Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?”
--- I read the first part of page 1 and page 30, so hopefully you found the answers in those many pages, --- However, I would like to comment on the first Posts, if I may.

Quote: Where can I find God’s written instructions for life and please provide me with references (texts) so I can research it

Response: --- I will give this later, but I think the second Quote is important first.

Quote: in my studies I’ve read this verse in the Quran, can someone shed a little light on it for me.
(S) 2:4 “[The righteous] trust what has been revealed to you and to others before you, and firmly believe in the life to come.”
Can someone explain to me what is meant by “what has been revealed” and also explain to me whom it was revealed to and what life it's referring to? Because this verse sounds as if it is giving advice as to how to achieve written instructions for life.

Response: --- This was spoken to Muhammad and refers to what had been ‘revealed to him,’ --- and it says this in Surah 42:
And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it (the revelation) a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path,
--- As the angel Gabriel revealed messages to Muhammad, he was given understanding through his intellect of the former Scriptures, and the Faith to believe them, (which was like a ‘light’ going on in his mind).

So this was the instruction given to Muhammad which was from v4, “what has been revealed to you and to others before you,” --- and because the former Scriptures of the Torah and the Gospel reveal future events and the understanding of heaven, --- they “firmly believe in the life to come.”

And Gabriel confirmed the former Scriptures in Surah 3:
3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, 'confirming' that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

It is often thought that in the Quran, ‘the People of the Book’ refer to both Jews and Christians, --- but there are verses that show their different attitude toward Muhammad’s teaching. --- And here is an example, which proves that what Muhammad taught was in line with what Christians already believed.

--- Check out these verses in Surah 5:
82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
83 And when they listen to the revelation received by the Apostle, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.
84 "What cause can we have not to believe in God and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?"
85 And for this their prayer hath God rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath, - their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.
86 But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs, - they shall be companions of Hell-fire.

Quote: (from response to Islamispeace) --- Why didn’t Jesus say the Torah, Psalms and Gospel were corrupted when he was on earth? He never did, in fact he confirms the previous uncorrupted scriptures as you say Muhammad did. These are major, major, major conflicts my friend.
The Gospel (Four different writers) never said the Psalms and the Torah are in error nor the Psalms (King David and others) the Torah. This is a grave error that has been made against these "Holy Scriptures" because 2 Timothy 3:16 says " All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.

Response: --- The Quran doesn’t teach that the former Scriptures were changed or Gabriel would have revealed that to, and through, Muhammad, would he not?
--- Instead Gabriel ‘confirmed’ them in Surah 3:3 above, and here in Surah 5:
48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth 'confirming' the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.
--- (Is God not able to preserve His Word --- in safety, --- in spite of translations and faulty interpretations by men?)


Placid

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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2012 at 2:07am
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Kish,

I have recently visited this forum and I find some interesting topics. --- I guess one of the basic questions for each of us, is your question, “Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?”
--- I read the first part of page 1 and page 30, so hopefully you found the answers in those many pages, --- However, I would like to comment on the first Posts, if I may.

Quote: Where can I find God’s written instructions for life and please provide me with references (texts) so I can research it

Response: --- I will give this later, but I think the second Quote is important first.

Quote: in my studies I’ve read this verse in the Quran, can someone shed a little light on it for me.
(S) 2:4 “[The righteous] trust what has been revealed to you and to others before you, and firmly believe in the life to come.”
Can someone explain to me what is meant by “what has been revealed” and also explain to me whom it was revealed to and what life it's referring to? Because this verse sounds as if it is giving advice as to how to achieve written instructions for life.

Response: --- This was spoken to Muhammad and refers to what had been ‘revealed to him,’ --- and it says this in Surah 42:
And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it (the revelation) a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path,
--- As the angel Gabriel revealed messages to Muhammad, he was given understanding through his intellect of the former Scriptures, and the Faith to believe them, (which was like a ‘light’ going on in his mind).

So this was the instruction given to Muhammad which was from v4, “what has been revealed to you and to others before you,” --- and because the former Scriptures of the Torah and the Gospel reveal future events and the understanding of heaven, --- they “firmly believe in the life to come.”

And Gabriel confirmed the former Scriptures in Surah 3:
3 He hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture with truth, 'confirming' that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

It is often thought that in the Quran, ‘the People of the Book’ refer to both Jews and Christians, --- but there are verses that show their different attitude toward Muhammad’s teaching. --- And here is an example, which proves that what Muhammad taught was in line with what Christians already believed.

--- Check out these verses in Surah 5:
82 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
83 And when they listen to the revelation received by the Apostle, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses.
84 "What cause can we have not to believe in God and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?"
85 And for this their prayer hath God rewarded them with gardens, with rivers flowing underneath, - their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good.
86 But those who reject Faith and belie our Signs, - they shall be companions of Hell-fire.

Quote: (from response to Islamispeace) --- Why didn’t Jesus say the Torah, Psalms and Gospel were corrupted when he was on earth? He never did, in fact he confirms the previous uncorrupted scriptures as you say Muhammad did. These are major, major, major conflicts my friend.
The Gospel (Four different writers) never said the Psalms and the Torah are in error nor the Psalms (King David and others) the Torah. This is a grave error that has been made against these "Holy Scriptures" because 2 Timothy 3:16 says " All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.

Response: --- The Quran doesn’t teach that the former Scriptures were changed or Gabriel would have revealed that to, and through, Muhammad, would he not?
--- Instead Gabriel ‘confirmed’ them in Surah 3:3 above, and here in Surah 5:
48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth 'confirming' the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.
--- (Is God not able to preserve His Word --- in safety, --- in spite of translations and faulty interpretations by men?)


Placid

 

Sahih International

So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. 2:79

 

Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse, 2:159

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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2012 at 6:02am
Hi Abu,

Quote: So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. 2:79
Indeed, those who conceal what We sent down of clear proofs and guidance after We made it clear for the people in the Scripture - those are cursed by Allah and cursed by those who curse, 2:159

Response: --- Verse 79 follows the incident of the Jews killing a man in V72, and disputing about it. --- Now let’s check the verse in its context in Surah 2:
75 Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they (the Jews) will believe in you? - Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of God, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.
76 Behold! when they meet the men of Faith, they say: "We believe": But when they meet each other in private, they say: "Shall you tell them what God hath revealed to you, that they may engage you in argument about it before your Lord?" - Do ye not understand (their aim)?
77 Know they not that God knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal?
78 And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
79 (Your verse) Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from God," to traffic with it for miserable price! - Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
80 And they say: "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days:" Say: "Have ye taken a promise from God, for He never breaks His promise? or is it that ye say of God what ye do not know?"
81 Nay, those who seek gain in evil, and are girt round by their sins, - they are companions of the Fire: Therein shall they abide (For ever).

--- (Those who write or teach something other than the Scriptures, have not changed the Scripture, they have just condemned themselves as hypocrite ---as V75 says, “and perverted it knowingly after they understood it.”
--- But they only wrote their ‘changed’ version, which did not change God’s word.)

And these verses also in Surah 2:
159 (Your verse) Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book, - on them shall be God's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,
160 Except those who repent and make amends and openly declare (the Truth): To them I turn; for I am Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
161 Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting, - on them is God's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;
162 They will abide therein: Their penalty will not be lightened, nor will respite be their (lot).

--- (Many who hide the truth of the Scripture, --- though they understand it, have not changed it. --- And if they repent and tell the truth, they will be forgiven.
But those who are disbelieving, or who don’t reveal the truth that they know, --- really condemn themselves, do they not?)


Placid

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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 25 November 2012 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Kish

And I am HAPPY to say NO Muslim have been able to show and prove by providing an original form of the Torah and Injil other than what we already have today!Until any Muslim can provide a so called uncorrupted version of the Torah and the Injil other than what we have you will never have peace.


Kish,
I am sad that before I read the Bible (one's in circulation today), I thought it was from God. After reading it, I am certain that there are things in it that cannot be from God while so many are fooled and midguided to believe that it is.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 25 November 2012 at 3:16pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 26 November 2012 at 7:20am
Hi Kish,

Sorry to be slow in getting back to you about God’s instructions for our lives.
--- I hope you have found more info to guide you, but I want to add this from the Quran.

Really, knowing God, is a process, but you need to start with the basics of what you have learned, --- And I assumed you learned this from the Quran. ---That Muhammad was called of God to remove idolatry from Arabia and restore faith in our One God.

One of the earliest messages that Muhammad taught to his relatives and friends was the beginning of the Gospel, which was the first part of Surah 19. --- The miraculous birth of John the Baptist, and the Virgin Birth of Jesus. --- (I can explain that later if you want.)

This shows a connection to the Gospel --- and if we go on to what Muhammad was given not only to believe, himself, but what he was instructed to teach, --- it is found in these familiar verses. --- (This is the continuing Message, from Abraham to Muhammad.)

3:84 Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
2:136 Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

16:123 And afterward We inspired thee (Muhammad, saying): Follow the religion of Abraham, as one by nature upright. He was not of the idolaters.
2:130 And who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself? --- Verily We chose him in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.

It was from the Patriarch Abraham that our three religions came. --- The message has always been the same, “Believe in God and follow the teaching that comes from the Faith of Abraham.
The Law was given through Moses for the Jews, --- as in this verse:
21:48 And We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil. --- (This was basically the Ten Commandments that are a ‘code of ethics’ for all generations, are they not?)

And the Gospel was given to Jesus, who was also the Messiah, and God’s special Messenger,--- as it says in these verses:
5:46 And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. --- (So you can see why Christians believe and teach the Gospel.)

Some of the Prophets and Leaders that are mentioned are in these verses:
4:163 Lo! We inspire thee as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms;
6:84 And We bestowed upon him (Abraham), Isaac and Jacob; each of them We guided; and Noah did We guide aforetime; and of his seed (We guided) David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good.
85 And Zachariah and John and Jesus and Elias. Each one (of them) was of the righteous. --- (These are from the New Testament.)

When you get to believe in all of these, --- then you are believing in the Messengers that came before Muhammad, --- and Gabriel confirmed that the former Scriptures were true, --- So it is no doubt the first step in what God requires of all believers. --- (As a Christian I believe it.)

--- And this is all from the Quran, isn’t it?


Placid

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