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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Topic: God’s written instructions for life.
    Posted: 08 July 2011 at 1:55pm

Where can I find God’s written instructions for life?

That is my Question. I read, read and read but I know more is needed to please God fully. To be honest it’s quite wearisome at times reading different sacred books. From what I’ve read God does not speak to us directly as he did in the past so how does he communicate with people today? There are good people in every religion but I’m more of a spiritual person then a religious one. It seems that all the prophets did great things but that’s back then, what about now?  

I’m trying to find out which of the sacred books can stand the test of time (scrutinize). Can a person judge a religion by its followers, I guess, I really don’t know at this point. What I do know is that God is omnipotent and he offers something better and I can’t convince myself that he left it all up to chance. So, I’m concerned with the hard core facts, what his written word has to say and I guess everything else will work themselves out eventually.    

Where can I find God’s written instructions for life and please provide me with references (texts) so I can research it and compare one with the other and if I have any questions I’ll present them back here on this forum.    

Thanks in advance,

Kish

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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2011 at 9:56pm

Hi, as I wait for an answer to my first question, in my studies I’ve read this verse in the Quran, can someone shed a little light on it for me.

(S) 2:4 “[The righteous] trust what has been revealed to you and to others before you, and firmly believe in the life to come.”

Can someone explain to me what is meant by “what has been revealed” and also explain to me whom it was revealed to and what life it's referring to? Because this verse sounds as if it is giving advice as to how to achieve written instructions for life.


Kish



Edited by Kish - 16 July 2011 at 9:58pm
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2011 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Kish

Hi, as I wait for an answer to my first question, in my studies I’ve read this verse in the Quran, can someone shed a little light on it for me.

(S) 2:4 “[The righteous] trust what has been revealed to you and to others before you, and firmly believe in the life to come.”

Can someone explain to me what is meant by “what has been revealed” and also explain to me whom it was revealed to and what life it's referring to? Because this verse sounds as if it is giving advice as to how to achieve written instructions for life.


Kish

Hi Kish.  The verse is referring to the Quran which was to revealed to Muhammad (pbuh) and the previous pristine scriptures like the Torah and the Gospel which were revealed to Moses and Jesus (pbut), respectively.  The "life" to come is a reference to the Afterlife, which the Quran assures us will come. 

As far as your main questions, I think you have already taken the first step to finding God's written instructions.  They are in the Quran and the Sunnah.  Now of course, a Christian or Hindu may tell you that they are found in their own scriptures.  At that point, it is up to you to decide.  Pray to God for guidance and be sincere in your search and inshaAllah, you will find the answers you seek. 

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2011 at 8:33pm

Your feedback is appreciated, and I realize that knowing which books are Gods written word is not enough as I read. According to (S) 5:68 “Say: ‘People of the Book, you shall not be guided until you observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord.’”

Are you confirming what the Quran say’s by saying that the Torah and the Gospel should be recognized and obeyed as well?   

Also, this afterlife is it in heaven forever or on earth forever, because the concept of heaven only entered into the picture during the Gospel account, not before. No where can I find the concept of heaven in the Torah, the Law or the Psalms in my studies.  

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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2011 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by Kish

Your feedback is appreciated, and I realize that knowing which books are Gods written word is not enough as I read. According to (S) 5:68 “Say: ‘People of the Book, you shall not be guided until you observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord.’”

Are you confirming what the Quran say’s by saying that the Torah and the Gospel should be recognized and obeyed as well?   

Also, this afterlife is it in heaven forever or on earth forever, because the concept of heaven only entered into the picture during the Gospel account, not before. No where can I find the concept of heaven in the Torah, the Law or the Psalms in my studies.  



The Quran confirms the previous, uncorrupted scripture.  Notice in my response I used the word "pristine".  God sent down the Quran to confirm and renew the teachings of the previous scriptures and to correct the errors and falsehoods that had been added to them.  In the same Surah which you quoted, it is written:

"But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book, -" (5:13-15)

Regarding the afterlife, it is in Paradise or in Hell, depending on a person's choices.  In Islam, Paradise is described as a Garden which has been created for the righteous:

"
Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-
" (3:133)

Even if the concept of an afterlife is not present in the Torah, it does not matter to Muslims because we believe in the Quran and the present Torah is not authoritative for us.  It would be better if you asked a Jewish scholar about the Jewish concept of the afterlife.   

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2011 at 9:41pm

Yet, the Quran also says “Those to whom the burden of the Torah was entrusted and yet refused to bear it are like a donkey laden with books.”—(S) 62:5

How can the Quran credit the ‘Torah, Psalms and Gospel’ by saying observe them, then discredit them by saying they have errors?

The Quran teaches these three writings the Torah, Psalms and Gospel are from God correct?

The Quran teaches that they should both be recognized and obeyed, correct? What am I missing here, either they are from God or they are not.

You say “The Quran confirms the previous, uncorrupted scripture.”

Why didn’t Jesus say the Torah, Psalms and Gospel were corrupted when he was on earth? He never did, in fact he confirms the previous uncorrupted scriptures as you say Muhammad did. These are major, major, major conflicts my friend.

The Gospel (Four different writers) never said the Psalms and the Torah are in error nor the Psalms (King David and others) the Torah. This is a grave error that has been made against these "Holy Scriptures" because 2 Timothy 3:16 says " All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.

Are you saying that God's inspired scriptures are wrong? Or are you saying it's interpretations are wrong there is a difference? 

Qur’an reads: “After those prophets We sent forth Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Torah already revealed, and gave him the Gospel, in which there is guidance and light, corroborating that which was revealed before it in the Torah, a guide and an admonition to the righteous. Therefore let the followers of the Gospel judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed therein. Evil-doers are those that do not base their judgements on Allah’s revelations.” (S) 5: 46, 47.

Why would Muhammad say the previous scriptures were corrupted when Jesus who the Quran holds in high esteem does not?  I think you’re really going out on the limb here. Can one really have guidance and light in the Gospel if it were corrupted with errors and falsehoods?

From what I see thus far respectively your explanation doesn’t seem to be in harmony with what even the Quran is telling us because I thought the Quran was written for the purpose of confirming these books and not to reject its faith.

(S) 2:41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.  

Waaminoo bima anzaltu musaddiqanlima maAAakum wala takoonoo awwala kafirinbihi wala tashtaroo bi-ayatee thamananqaleelan wa-iyyaya faittaqooni

Children of Israel . . . Have faith in My revelations, which confirm your Scriptures.”

Kish



Edited by Kish - 20 July 2011 at 6:22am
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2011 at 7:49pm
Yet, the Quran also says “Those to whom the burden of the Torah was entrusted and yet refused to bear it are like a donkey laden with books.”—(S) 62:5 How can the Quran credit the ‘Torah, Psalms and Gospel’ by saying observe them, then discredit them by saying they have errors? The Quran teaches these three writings the Torah, Psalms and Gospel are from God correct? The Quran teaches that they should both be recognized and obeyed, correct? What am I missing here, either they are from God or they are not.You say “The Quran confirms the previous, uncorrupted scripture.”


As I said, the Quran came to confirm the truth contained in the previous scriptures as well as to correct the errors which had been added to them.  No one said the entire Torah or Gospel has been corrupted.  There is some truth and some falsehood.  That is why the Quran was sent down.  You are only looking at one side of the coin and ignoring the other.

Why didn’t Jesus say the Torah, Psalms and Gospel were corrupted when he was on earth? He never did, in fact he confirms the previous uncorrupted scriptures as you say Muhammad did. These are major, major, major conflicts my friend.
 

How do you know?  Are you basing this on the Gospel accounts, which were written decades after Jesus?  He was sent to the Children of Israel because they had strayed from the straight path.  The Gospel served to confirm the truth of the previous scriptures but also to erase the falsehoods that some among the Jews had added to the teachings.  Jesus also made some changes to the Mosaic Law, with God's authority of course.

The Gospel (Four different writers) never said the Psalms and the Torah are in error nor the Psalms (King David and others) the Torah. This is a grave error that has been made against these "Holy Scriptures" because 2 Timothy 3:16 says " All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.
  

We are not talking about the opinions of the Gospel writers.  We are talking about what the Quran says about the previous scriptures.  Furthermore, of course the Gospel writers never claimed the Old Testament was not trustworthy.  Their entire theological case depended upon the OT!  Without it, they could not develop the idea that Jesus was prophesied by the earlier prophets.  Therefore, they had a dogmatic reason to not case the OT aside.  And yet, the 2nd century heretic Marcion did just that.  He could not see how the OT could be compared to the NT and came up with the ridiculous belief that the God of the OT was some lesser, evil God. 

Are you saying that God's inspired scriptures are wrong? Or are you saying it's interpretations are wrong there is a difference?


First of all, the scriptures were not "inspired".  The scriptures are the literal words of God, dictated to mankind through His prophets and messengers.  They are not the words of men who claimed they were inspired.  There is a big difference.  Second, God's literal words were entrusted to mankind but over the centuries, these words were edited and redacted by anonymous people.  There is plenty of historical and archaeological evidence to support this.  That is the reason the Quran was sent down and God has promised to protect the universal message contained in it forever.

Qur’an reads: “After those prophets We sent forth Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Torah already revealed, and gave him the Gospel, in which there is guidance and light, corroborating that which was revealed before it in the Torah, a guide and an admonition to the righteous. Therefore let the followers of the Gospel judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed therein. Evil-doers are those that do not base their judgements on Allah’s revelations.” (S) 5: 46, 47.


See above.  Why do you think God needed to send the Gospel, which contained "guidance and light" when the Torah was already sent and was in its pristine condition, as you assume?  What was the purpose of sending another book when one was already present?  The answer is that the Gospel was sent to confirm the truth and to eliminate the falsehood.   

From what I see thus far respectively your explanation doesn’t seem to be in harmony with what even the Quran is telling us because I thought the Quran was written for the purpose of confirming these books and not to reject its faith.


That is because you are only reading certain parts of the Quran while ignoring others.  It makes it very clear that some of the beliefs of the Jews and Christians are blasphemous and wrong.  Some of these beliefs are found in the books of these two groups.  How then can anyone claim that the Quran upholds those books?  For sure, it confirms the most important teaching that has been preserved, that of the Oneness of God.  But it also strongly denies what it deems the falsehoods, such as claiming that Jesus is God's son or God Himself.  You are erroneously assuming that the "confirmation" means the whole modern version of the Torah or Gospel is considered to be true, when that is not the case. 



Edited by islamispeace - 20 July 2011 at 7:51pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 20 July 2011 at 10:54pm

So, what you are saying according to the Quran the writings of the Holy Bible are written in falsehood although there are some truths to them (According to the Quran)? That is really odd because neither Jesus nor his Apostles ever mentioned errors or falsehoods in the previous Holy writings only in some of their beliefs and later teachings, a big, big difference.

Originally posted by islamispeace

How do you know?  Are you basing this on the Gospel accounts, which were written decades after Jesus?

I can, if you’re basing it on the Quran written centuries later after the completion of the Gospel. Honestly, which sounds odder to you decades or centuries?

Besides, Muhammad died before the completion of the Quran.

Originally posted by islamispeace

First of all, the scriptures were not "inspired".

Well, just as Muslims believe the Quran were inspired so do Christians the Gospel and Jews the Torah, so let’s not beat a dead horse on this post but deal with logic please. The unique difference I would say is that Muhammad specifically mentions the Torah, Psalms and Gospel not the other way around.

Wouldn’t you say that puts the Quran in a very questionable and awkward position, especially considering the verses from the Quran itself regarding the previous scriptures?

Originally posted by islamispeace

Why do you think God needed to send the Gospel, which contained "guidance and light" when the Torah was already sent and was in its pristine condition, as you assume?  What was the purpose of sending another book when one was already present? The answer is that the Gospel was sent to confirm the truth and to eliminate the falsehood.

First - Matthew 5:17 “Do not think I (Jesus) came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill; (No error, no falsehoods and no need to destroy it)

Second – Luke 4:43 Jesus said: “To other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.”

Webster’s Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines “Gospel” as “the message concerning Christ, the kingdom of God, and salvation.”

Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words says that in the Christian Greek Scriptures (the “New Testament”), the Gospel “denotes the good tidings of the Kingdom of God and of salvation through Christ, to be received by faith, on the basis of His expiatory death.”

Originally posted by islamispeace

That is because you are only reading certain parts of the Quran while ignoring others.  It makes it very clear that some of the beliefs of the Jews and Christians are blasphemous and wrong. 

Some of their beliefs yes, but the Holy writings of the Torah, Psalms and Gospel, no; it all depended on what Jewish set you spoke with regarding their belief. Plus, if you’re comparing Judaism and Christianity to the Quran it would appear to be blasphemous, their teachings are much different from Islam, it’s like night and day. That would totally be understandable, logically speaking.

Originally posted by islamispeace

 Some of these beliefs are found in the books of these two groups.  How then can anyone claim that the Quran upholds those books?  For sure, it confirms the most important teaching that has been preserved, that of the Oneness of God. 

Again, you’re expecting the Quran to uphold these books when it appears from what you’re explaining that they diametrically oppose each other because of their teaching of Jesus being God son or a god himself. Why would the previous scriptures of long ago all of a sudden be changed because of this one much later book the Quran?

As you already mentioned the Old Testament upholds the New Testament and the New Testament the Old, why would it be concerned with upholding anything else other than what it was meant to do?

You’re mixing apples (Bible) with oranges (Quran) you will always tell them apart!  

Kish

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