IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: "except what must ordinarily appear thereof"

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Ron Webb
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Topic: "except what must ordinarily appear thereof"
Posted: 15 April 2011 at 4:46pm

I'm curious to hear from Muslims who believe that a woman must be entirely covered, including her face, while in public.

As you know, the Quran [24.31] says: "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty ; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof."

What exactly does the italicized phrase refer to? What is it that "must ordinarily appear"?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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IssaEl999

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Posted: 18 April 2011 at 7:35pm

El's Holy Quraan Chapter 24 , ( Al Nuwr ~ The Light ) Reavealed In The Year 627 - 628 A.D. And I Quote ; Don't Enter House , Until You Becaome Familiar With Them , Or You Are Given Permission ~ You May Enter Uninhabited House ~ Faithful Male Are To Lower Their Eyes , And Guard Their Private Parts ~ And For The Faithful Women , You Are To Guard Their Private Parts ~ They Can Display Their Body Parts To Their ( Bu'uwlah ) And Their Relatives ~ Marry The Saalihiyn Amongs You ~ Don't Compel Your Young Maid Slaves To Forication Verses 27 - 34

El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .

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semar

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Posted: 19 April 2011 at 12:34pm

Originally posted by Ron Webb

I'm curious to hear from Muslims who believe that a woman must be entirely covered, including her face, while in public.

What exactly does the italicized phrase refer to? What is it that "must ordinarily appear"?

I think this is the way God give us instruction, in some issue he give us very detail instruction such as in which person that we can or can not marry with, this will not give us a change to use our own opinion. In above case I think God give us a change to use our own judgement what's "ordinary means". Of course we also need to use other documents to help us to understand what that's mean. So in this issue my understanding is that face and hand is the ordinary.

Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 19 April 2011 at 4:54pm

Thanks semar. For what my (non-Muslim) opinion is worth, I agree with you mostly, except for the "need to use other documents", which to me would imply that the Quran is inadequate or incomplete. I think that the Quran is deliberately vague or silent about some things, the intention being for us to use our judgement to decide what is best in a particular situation (e.g., what "ordinarily appears" on a beach is quite different from regular street clothes). God gave us brains for a reason, after all.

However, I really would like to hear from Muslims who believe that a woman must be entirely covered in public. I suppose that they are a minority, but there must be a few on this forum. What do they find in the Quran to support this position, and how do they reconcile it with Allah's own statement that some of a woman's beauty and adornments do ordinarily appear?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Author	Message
Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Topic: "except what must ordinarily appear thereof" Posted: 15 April 2011 at 4:46pm
	I'm curious to hear from Muslims who believe that a woman must be entirely covered, including her face, while in public. As you know, the Quran [24.31] says: "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty ; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof." What exactly does the italicized phrase refer to? What is it that "must ordinarily appear"?
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
	IP Logged

IssaEl999 Guest Group Joined: 10 March 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 336	Posted: 18 April 2011 at 7:35pm
	El's Holy Quraan Chapter 24 , ( Al Nuwr ~ The Light ) Reavealed In The Year 627 - 628 A.D. And I Quote ; Don't Enter House , Until You Becaome Familiar With Them , Or You Are Given Permission ~ You May Enter Uninhabited House ~ Faithful Male Are To Lower Their Eyes , And Guard Their Private Parts ~ And For The Faithful Women , You Are To Guard Their Private Parts ~ They Can Display Their Body Parts To Their ( Bu'uwlah ) And Their Relatives ~ Marry The Saalihiyn Amongs You ~ Don't Compel Your Young Maid Slaves To Forication Verses 27 - 34
	El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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semar Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 11 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1234	Posted: 19 April 2011 at 12:34pm
	*Originally posted by Ron Webb* I'm curious to hear from Muslims who believe that a woman must be entirely covered, including her face, while in public. As you know, the Quran [24.31] says: "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty ; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof." What exactly does the italicized phrase refer to? What is it that "must ordinarily appear"? I think this is the way God give us instruction, in some issue he give us very detail instruction such as in which person that we can or can not marry with, this will not give us a change to use our own opinion. In above case I think God give us a change to use our own judgement what's "ordinary means". Of course we also need to use other documents to help us to understand what that's mean. So in this issue my understanding is that face and hand is the ordinary.
	Salam/Peace, Semar The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full" "1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 19 April 2011 at 4:54pm
	Thanks semar. For what my (non-Muslim) opinion is worth, I agree with you mostly, except for the "need to use other documents", which to me would imply that the Quran is inadequate or incomplete. I think that the Quran is deliberately vague or silent about some things, the intention being for us to use our judgement to decide what is best in a particular situation (e.g., what "ordinarily appears" on a beach is quite different from regular street clothes). God gave us brains for a reason, after all. However, I really would like to hear from Muslims who believe that a woman must be entirely covered in public. I suppose that they are a minority, but there must be a few on this forum. What do they find in the Quran to support this position, and how do they reconcile it with Allah's own statement that some of a woman's beauty and adornments do ordinarily appear?
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
	IP Logged