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IssaEl999
 
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Quote IssaEl999 Replybullet Posted: 17 April 2011 at 6:46am
Originally posted by Jack Catholic

Dear IssaEl999 and brothers,
 
I do not have a problem with anything you have posted.  Accept for one thing: Teacher, Master, and Lord are synonyms in English.  Calling Jesus Lord is not an incorrect translation when we are speaking about English.
 
About the name of, "Allah," for Yahweh (Jehovah), I am all for calling God, "Allah."  The problem here on Islamicity.com is that though Christians have been calling God, "Allah" for 2000+ years (longer than Islam has existed), yet Muslims have told me they are offended when I referr to God in a Christian way while calling Him, "Allah,"  they are highly offended.  What's more, in Muslim countries, Muslims are putting Christians to death in the streets for using this name in reference to the Christian God.  Then Christians are being accused of provoking these murders.  Many of these countries have made it national law forbidding Christians from calling God, "Allah," saying that because we recognize God as a trinity, calling God, "Allah," is blasphemy against the understanding the Muslims have of God.  I did not make this controversy, nor do I kill people over the issue.  But Muslims are killing Christians regularly over it.  What can I say?  I'd like to see Muslims police themselves on this issue, bringing other Muslims to justice for these murders.  But the Holy Qur'an does not recommend the death penalty for murder should a Muslim kill a Christian, thought it does recommend the death penalty for a Christian who kills a Muslim.  Go figure that one.
 
About your post, you haven't made a case for the Holy Bible evolving over time, as many Muslims seem to assert.  Can you show that it has evolved over time?  So far, nobody has done so. 
 
God Bless,
 
Jack Catholic
 
Let Keep It Real Here Ok No More Games . First The Bible Wasn't Written In English Ok . It Was Written In Aramic Any Of Your Socalled Religious Theologian / Scholar / Minister / Pastor Etc Will Tell You This , So Anything Written In English Is Fake Overstand . Not Only That Saul , Shaool , Paul  13th Self -Appointed Apostle Change The Teaching Of Moses / Yashu'a . So The Teaching You Accept Today Is Wrong . Now If You Like I Can Walk You Through It Step By Step Ok . Let's See  If You Really Know Your Scripture ok By The Way Check This Link Ok ..Trinity Fact Or Fiction ?
 
Jack  ... How Come Most Christian I Say Most And Not All Christians Come With This Bull About  Muslims Killing Christian , When The Roman Went Around The World Killing / Rape Men / Woman Stealing Their Land / Resources Etc . Today They Call It Democracy . My Question To You What Name Did They Call It  Back Then ???


Edited by IssaEl999 - 17 April 2011 at 3:45pm
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 18 April 2011 at 2:15am

Originally posted by Jack Catholic

Dear IssaEl999 and brothers,

I do not have a problem with anything you have posted. Accept for one thing: Teacher, Master, and Lord are synonyms in English. Calling Jesus Lord is not an incorrect translation when we are speaking about English.

About the name of, "Allah," for Yahweh (Jehovah), I am all for calling God, "Allah." The problem here on Islamicity.com is that though Christians have been calling God, "Allah" for 2000+ years (longer than Islam has existed), yet Muslims have told me they are offended when I referr to God in a Christian way while calling Him, "Allah," they are highly offended. What's more, in Muslim countries, Muslims are putting Christians to death in the streets for using this name in reference to the Christian God. Then Christians are being accused of provoking these murders. Many of these countries have made it national law forbidding Christians from calling God, "Allah," saying that because we recognize God as a trinity, calling God, "Allah," is blasphemy against the understanding the Muslims have of God. I did not make this controversy, nor do I kill people over the issue. But Muslims are killing Christians regularly over it. What can I say? I'd like to see Muslims police themselves on this issue, bringing other Muslims to justice for these murders. But the Holy Qur'an does not recommend the death penalty for murder should a Muslim kill a Christian, thought it does recommend the death penalty for a Christian who kills a Muslim. Go figure that one.

 

Jack Catholic

 

Br. Jack, you are using diplomacy in attacking the Muslims here; no wonder they recognize you long before. Never mind, we accustom to that!

 

The reason for that is that you make Allah (S) into a man and that is blasphemy!

 

Are God and his law a curse?

 

  13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." Galatians 3:13

 

Let me remember you what Jesus (S) said, he said:

  "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)

Jesus (S) teaches to obey the law:

  "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.(Matthew 23:1-3)"

If you claimed to be a follower of Jesus (S) then you have to be obedient to the law, are you?

Let us look at the law, it says:

  "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people." Deuteronomy 13:6-9

  "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die." Deuteronomy 17:3-5

Are you obeying  the law?

Let us look at what Paul has to say, he said:

  "20.   For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 
21.  For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22.  Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 
23. 
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24.  Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25.  They exchanged the truth of God for a lie,
and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26.  Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27.  In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.  Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28.  Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29.  They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30.  slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 
31.  they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32. Although they know God's righteous decree that
those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:20-32

Which law do you follow? Does the GOD Almighty of the Mosaic Law really sound like One who cares about our opinions in these Verses?

  "And as for a man or woman in whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they should be put to death without fail.  They should pelt them to death with stones.  Their own blood is upon them." Leviticus 20:27

  15 Anyone who attacks his father or his mother must be put to death. Exodus 21:15

 
16 Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death. Exodus 21:16

 
17 Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death. Exodus 21:17

 
19 Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death. Exodus 22:19

 
14 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. Exodus 31:14

 
15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.  Exodus 31:15

 
12 'If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads. Leviticus 20:12

 
13 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. Leviticus 20:13

Again, Jesus (S) said:

  "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)

 

Do you believe what Jesus (S) prophesied there will not fulfilled? He said: I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. 

 

The God of the Moses (S) said:

  For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [Allah (S)] shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [Allah (S)] shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 1:11

 

TNC



Edited by truthnowcome - 18 April 2011 at 2:40am
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Quote IssaEl999 Replybullet Posted: 18 April 2011 at 6:32am
According to '' The American Heritage Dictionary '' The word '' Law '' Is defined as ..
1 . A rule of conduct or procedute established by custom , Agreement , or Authority . 2 . A . The body of rules and principle governing the affairs of A community and enforced by A political Authority ;

The Ashuric Syriac ( Arabic ) word for Law is Shari'ah which means ; '' A Rule Established By Authority ; Society Or Custom 2 . A Code Of Ethics Or Behavior , '' This word takes it's root from ; Shara'a meaning to introduce , Enact , Prescribe , Give , Make Laws .

The Aramic / Hebrew word for Law is ; '' Towrah '' or '' Torah '' These letters are equivalent to The Ashuric Syriac ( Arabic ) word wariyya Which means '' A View '' . In Greek , The Word For Law Is ; Nomos ''
 
As mentioned previously the word for Laws in Ashuric Syriac ( Arabic ) Is '' Shari'ah '' .
The word for commandment is '' Wasiah '' And means direction , instruction , Injuction , Order '' . Many times throughout The Scriptures you will see A Distinction Being Made Between A '' Law '' And A '' Commandment '' . Take A LQQk At ( Exodus 24 ; 12 ) ;

Exodus 24 ; 12 ( Revealed In The Year 1512 B.C.E. And I Quote ; And the Lord said unto Moses Come up to me into the mount , and be there ; and I will give thee tables of stone , and a Law and Commandments which I have written ; that thou Mayest Teach them .

As you can see The Most High made A Disinction Between Law , Commandment And Stone Tablet . The Commandment Is What Is Asked Of You , For Instance The First Commandment That Was Given To Man , Kadmon ( Adam ) , Was Not To Partake Of The Tree Of Knowldge Of Good And Evil ;

Genesis 2 ; 16 -17 ( Revealed InThe Year 1512 B.C.E. ) And I Quote ; And the Lord God Commanded the man , saying , of every tree of the garden 'thou mayest freely eat ; Verse 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil , Thou shalt not eat of it ; for in the Day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely Die ....

Genesis 6 ; 22 ( Revealed InThe Year 1512 B.C.E. ) And I Quote ; Thus dis Noah according to all that Commanded him , so did he .

Genesis 17 ; 10 - 12 ( Revealed InThe Year 1512 B.C.E. ) And I Quote ; The is my covenant , which ye shall keep , between me and you and thy seed after thee ; Every Man Child among you Shall Be Circumcised . Verse 11 . And ye Shall Be Circumcised . the Flesh of your Foreskin and it shall be a Token of the covenant between me and you . Verse 12 , And he that is eight Days old Shall Be Circumcised among you , every man child in your generation , he that is born in the House , or bought with money of any Stranger which is not of thy seed .

Genesis 26 ; 5 ( Revealed InThe Year 1512 B.C.E. ) And I Quote ; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice , and Kept my Charge , my Commandments my Statutes , and my Laws .

( Genesis 2 ; 17 ) The was the first commandment given to man . This was Asked of him because man violated This Commandment , He was Punished for this Action , And was Expelled From The Garden Of Delight And His Gift Of Everlasting Life Was Revoked , As time went on , Man was given A Second Chance By The Most High To Amend For His / Hers Sins And If He Obeyed , Then He Would Inherit His Right Back To The Enclosed Gaeden Of Delight ( Commonly Know Today As '' Heaven '' Or '' Paradise '' ) .

However , Man Continued Disobeying His Commandments Until Man Became So Displeasing In The Eyes Of The Most High , That He Destroyed The Entire Population By Water ( Known To Many As The Great Flood Or Deluge ) During The Time Of Utnafishtim ( Noah ) Son Of Lamech And Kamiylah . ...
 


Edited by IssaEl999 - 18 April 2011 at 6:34am
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 18 April 2011 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Jack Catholic

Dear Mansoor_ali,

I listened to the debates.  They were great!!!  Whose argument do you think prevailed? Why?

Dear IssaEl999,

You should read the story of David in the Jewish Old Testament.  You will see clearly that David was never crucified.  You will also see that the Christian New Testament does not claim that David WAS crucified.  What point were you trying to assert in your post?  

Also, the very old custom that comes from the Middle East and the Mediteranian world of men kissing each other is no act of homosexuality.  We must be careful not to use modern ocurances to interpret something that happened nearly 4000 years ago.  The ancient custom is that a kiss means a promiss and is a sign of great respect.  It is placed on anothers cheek, or on the forehead, or on the hand.  A kiss on the lips is reserved only for husband and wife.  David and Jonathan kissed each other on the cheek, perhaps on both cheeks.  I am surprised you do not know this...  There was no homosexuality in the lives of either David or Jonathan.  Perhaps a little extra study for you is in order.

Dear Semar,

You use toddlers to show how my comment about newspaper writing couldnt possibly be true, but in your example of toddlers you have proven my point.  Toddlers dont write for the local newspaper.  In fact, Christianity did not spread by way of the written word, but rather by the spoken word.  The bible was not composed in news paper form, but rather in story form.  Christians who shared the Good News that had changed their lives and inspired them undoubtedly told the important material first.  But in the Catholic Mass that formed the worship of the first century Christians, they shared not the newspaper version of Jesus message, but the story form of it.  And it was this form that was written down in the 4 Gospels of the Christian New Testament.  You are passing judgment on the writings of well trained and God-inspired men based on your modern and personal expectations.  Thus, you are missing the point that the original authors had in mind by writing their books.

Dear Truthcomenow,

You have not showed with the argument of Original Language that the message of the Holy Bible had been altered over time.  Try again...

IssaEl999, Mansoor_ali, Truthcomenow, and Semar,

Can you prove that the message of the Holy Bible evolved over time into something different from what Jesus actually taught, or not?  With over 210 views on this string, one must assume that many readers are waiting to see if you can?  For if you cannot, we must assume that the Holy Bible is accurate in its message and in reporting the facts of the life of Jesus...

God Bless,

Jack Catholic

Jack,
Gospel you claim did not evolve since it was given to Jesus (pbuh). I am sorry to say that your claim cannot be proved true if we use the Bible as a refrence.
I will use two claims made by people like yourself that are fundamental to your belief which you claim to have come out of the same book which in turn proves them wrong.
1-The claim that Jesus is God. And you base that belief to have come out of the Bible.
I am sure you will agree with me that God does not have a God, right?
I am also sure you are quite familiar with NT quotes where Jesus is quoted to have said: " I am going to my father and your father, to my God and your God". Jesus has confirmed here that he has a God, your God and my God. This quote proves you and your claim is wrong.
 
The other claim you and people like you make is that God and Jesus are equal and same.
You will agree with me that there is none equal to God. If Jesus was God, he would have never said the statement I quoted above, nor this one:
" for my father is Greater than I".  Nowhere did he say, I am equal to God, but very clearly here he says: " for my father is Greater than I"
This is the truth, correct yourself while he has given you a chance, don't wait when nothing will save you from justice being served. Ask God's forgiveness for following your own ways, and He will forgive you your past mistakes, once you correct your path for good. Nothing other than following the truth will serve you any good.
Hasan 
 
 


Edited by honeto - 18 April 2011 at 2:00pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Mansoor_ali Replybullet Posted: 18 April 2011 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali


 To Jack Catholic

 I recommend you to watch a more scholarly debate between Shabir Ally and Dr.James White:

 Is the New Testament as it exists today the inspired word of God?

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvqq6A7l-qQ&feature=related

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdgAyhsjzg&feature=related

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxja3mrrxKQ&feature=watch_response

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqetcw6DZoU&feature=watch_response

 

 





 Debate between Dr.Bart Ehrman and Dr.Craig Evans "Does the New Testament Misquote Jesus?"

 
Click here to watch it:http://www.bartdehrman.com/flv_biblemisquotejesus/doesbiblemisquote.htm
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Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2011 at 3:58pm

Dear mr. Ron Webb,

 
Of the four gospel writers, only John and Luke spent any time with Mary, the mother of Jesus.  John cared for her, but he did not get the information that Luke did.  Luke was a medical doctor, John was not.  Luke followed St. Paul around for quite a few years.  As he traveled with Paul from place to place, he found quite a few communities that were missing knowledge of Jesus which other communities had.  So he began collecting stories.  He finished his research by spending 3 years with John and Mary in Ephesius.  There, he collected the stories of Jesus Birth, the visit by Mary to Elizabeth, the story of the birth of John the Baptist, and of the muting of Zachariah.  He also got quite a bit on the crucifixion of Jesus from Mary who was there with Jesus throughout the whole event.  So why does Luke contain in his nerative things the other Gospels don't?  Just do your research and you will answer your own question.  Each gospel writer focused on the things he felt were the most important based on what he felt his audience most needed.  Each one wrote for a different audience.  Go figure.
 
God Bless,
 
Jack Catholic


Edited by Jack Catholic - 19 April 2011 at 4:32pm
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Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2011 at 4:11pm
Dear IssaEl999,
 
I do keep things real.  Romans did kill a lot of people, including Christians.  About what you say, "How Come Most Christian I Say Most And Not All Christians Come With This Bull About  Muslims Killing Christian," just look up on the internet, "muslim christian news" and you will find an almost daily news report from some part of the world of murder, riot induced killing, or other killings of christians by muslims.  I am not accusing you of any of this.  But I sure would appreciate some honesty on the part of non-christians regarding this ongoing issue in the world today.
 
You asked why we Chrsitians don't refer to God as Allah, I simply explained why, both from my personal experience and from the news reports I have read of goings on in Indonesia and Pakistan.
 
So what again was evidence that the Holy Bible evolved over time?  I haven't heard any.
 
God Bless,
 
Jack Catholic
 
 


Edited by Jack Catholic - 19 April 2011 at 4:35pm
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Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 19 April 2011 at 4:21pm
Dear truthcomenow,
 
 
You quoted, " "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.  I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.  (Matthew 5:17-18)"
 
 
Then you asked me if I am obeying the law.  What has this got to do with whether the bible has evolved, may I ask?
 
Based on the verses you provided, it seems that the New Testament agrees with the Torah as to what is right and what is wrong, no?  I don't see any evidence of evolving here. 
 
God Bless,
 
Jack Catholic
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