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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: The Holy Gospel did not evolve! Post Reply Post New Topic
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Jack Catholic
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Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2011 at 11:26pm
Dear IslamisPeace,
 
My motive for spending any time at all on Islamicity forums is to uncover the truth.  Yours appears to be entertainment and action.  There are many of us posters on Islamicity forums who are not here for entertainment and action, but rather for other reasons.  Some of us, myself included, have been suckered into puting multiple hours over multiple weeks researching, studying, and posting toward that end while enduring unending responses that have no other goal than action, entertainment, and also arrogance.  I hearby advise all posters not to waste any time posting to arrogant, shallow posts that use humor at the expense of others.  And I urge you to loose it.
 
Jack Catholic
 
 
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2011 at 7:55am
IMHO it is comical to see a Catholic on a Muslim forum questioning the motives of other Muslims participating.  Really, Jack?  You came to a Muslim forum to "uncover the truth"?  Are you implying that Islam has some truth to it?  You're sure you're not here to proselytize your own brand of "the truth"?
 
I think you need to remember that you are a guest here (as I am). This is a Muslim forum. If Muslims want to use it for "entertainment and action", that is their prerogative. It's their playhouse, after all.  It's really not your place to "hearby [sic] advise all posters" what they ought and ought not to post.
 
Even so, frankly I don't see what islamispeace has written that has so offended you.  His contribution to this discussion has been insightful and substantive.  There is nothing wrong with a touch of humour or gentle sarcasm to lighten the mood, and nothing he has written was mean-spirited or offensive.  And before you accuse me of bias, let me remind you that as a humanist and atheist I "have no dog in this race" and disbelieve equally in both of your religions.
 
Perhaps you've reached your tolerance threshold for cognitive dissonance? Tongue


Edited by Ron Webb - 21 May 2011 at 7:56am
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2011 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Jack Catholic

Everyone seems silent on the issue of the evolution of the doctrines and content of the New Testament.  I have shown in summary how all evidence claiming that it evolved have been defeated.  Is there no more evidence?  Can we consider that this assertion that "the New Testament evolved as people made up new stuff about Jesus after he died" is officially a dead assertion?
 
If so, then I invite everyone to consider what the New Testament says in its entirety, and to consider the hope and promisses it gives us for a new and better life here on earth, and a better life after death.  I invite everyone to consider Jesus Christ and his claims and prommises, his teachings and his sacrifice.
 
God Bless you all, as always,
 
Jack Catholic
Jack,
Simply, isn't it enough of a proof that what we all now know as the New Testament, did not exist in the same form eight hudred years ago, and what existed of it 800 years ago was different than how it existed 700 years earlier. What you call that? Transformation, evolutions, metamorphoses, alteration, adjustment, editing, rewriting??
God's word was not to be transformed by man in any way. If any man alters, takes out or adds words, verses, books, or rewrites it, it no longer is the word of God, plain and simple.
And you know if anything contradicts, it cannot be from God, period.
 
Hasan
 
 
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2011 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

IMHO it is comical to see a Catholic on a Muslim forum questioning the motives of other Muslims participating.  Really, Jack?  You came to a Muslim forum to "uncover the truth"?  Are you implying that Islam has some truth to it?  You're sure you're not here to proselytize your own brand of "the truth"?
 
I think you need to remember that you are a guest here (as I am). This is a Muslim forum. If Muslims want to use it for "entertainment and action", that is their prerogative. It's their playhouse, after all.  It's really not your place to "hearby [sic] advise all posters" what they ought and ought not to post.
 
Even so, frankly I don't see what islamispeace has written that has so offended you.  His contribution to this discussion has been insightful and substantive.  There is nothing wrong with a touch of humour or gentle sarcasm to lighten the mood, and nothing he has written was mean-spirited or offensive.  And before you accuse me of bias, let me remind you that as a humanist and atheist I "have no dog in this race" and disbelieve equally in both of your religions.
 
Perhaps you've reached your tolerance threshold for cognitive dissonance? Tongue


Exactly.  Although, I must admit that Jack and I have had quite unpleasant discussions in the past.  I think much of that is being reflected in this thread. 

If I may, Ron, I would like to borrow your statement:

"This is a Muslim forum. If Muslims want to use it for "entertainment and action", that is their prerogative. It's their playhouse, after all."

This is a great statement and I may use it in my signature.  Do I have your permission?

Now let us get back to the actual topic.  No more diversions.  Let's get back to work.  If anyone has anything constructive to say to the points I and others have raised, speak up or forever hold your peace. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Jack Catholic
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Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2011 at 8:38pm
Dear Ron,
 
Indeed I do believe there is some truth to Islam.  I do not know much about Islam, and hope to learn as much about it as possible here.  Amazingly enough, should I ever start a post on Islam, it usually somehow turns into a discussion of what's wrong with Christianity.
 
Where ever I am and in whatever I do, guest or not, I reserve the right to advise anyone of whatever I believe is in their best interest, and I also have a right to demand the respect and good manners of those I interact with, or that I see disrespecting others.  Do you never stand up for others, Ron? 
 
Islamispeace has disrespected me once only on this string of posts.  What he and I are speakinf of is mainly about an issue we had a year ago, which you know nothing about.  Please refrain from speaking about that which you know nothing...
 
Cognitive dissonance?
 
God Bless you,
 
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Quote Jack Catholic Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2011 at 10:43pm
Dear Hasan,
 
I have seen Protestant versions of the Holy Bible in my life time being rewritten and changed to make them "more accurate," and some of these are what I have seen used in Christian Muslim debates on U-Tube, and refered to here on Islamicity Forums, but I have never seen a Catholic version of the Holy Bible which has been rewritten such that the meaning has been changed.  Can you show me some verses of a Catholic version of the Holy Bible which has been altered since, say, 800 years ago, or perhaps since 1500 years ago?  I'll eagerly await...
 
You wrote, "And you know if anything contradicts, it cannot be from God, period."
 
What does this mean when applied to the Holy Qur'an, which is known to contain contradictions? 
 
Example:   in Sura 2:97 the Qur'an claims to be a confirmation of the earlier revelation (as it does in many other verses), while in Sura 16:101 the Qur'an is viewed as "substituting" the earlier revelations. And the people call him a forgerer exactly because it does not fit together with the established revelation of God."
 
If contradiction in the Holy Qur'an does not nullify the Holy Qur'ans being from God, how can one say that the same does nullify the Holy Bible's comming from God?  Think about it...
 
God Bless you, Hasan,
 
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2011 at 7:45am

Originally posted by Jack Catholic

Where ever I am and in whatever I do, guest or not, I reserve the right to advise anyone of whatever I believe is in their best interest, and I also have a right to demand the respect and good manners of those I interact with, or that I see disrespecting others.  Do you never stand up for others, Ron?

That's what I'm doing right now.  Islamispeace has done nothing in this discussion that justifies your animosity toward him.  From where I sit, it sure looks like you are grasping at this straw because you have no good answer to the points he has raised.  In that case, IMHO he wins by default.

Islamispeace has disrespected me once only on this string of posts.  What he and I are speakinf of is mainly about an issue we had a year ago, which you know nothing about.  Please refrain from speaking about that which you know nothing...

If you're still carrying a grudge from a year ago, then that's all I need to know.

Cognitive dissonance?

Look it up.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2011 at 7:48am
Originally posted by islamispeace

If I may, Ron, I would like to borrow your statement:

"This is a Muslim forum. If Muslims want to use it for "entertainment and action", that is their prerogative. It's their playhouse, after all."

This is a great statement and I may use it in my signature.  Do I have your permission?
 
Sure, go ahead, but I'm not sure if it would be understood out of context.
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