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iec786

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Posted: 22 April 2012 at 4:50am

The fabrication of Trinity

The only verse indicating trinity (the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one) has been removed from the bible by 32 scholars of the bible in the Revised Standard Version among many other verses as fabrication after they realized that these verses do not exist in the most ancient manuscript and as such there is not a single verse indicating Trinity anymore in the complete bible.

John A-V {5:7} For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (This verse does not exist anymore in the RSV)

32 scholars of the Highest Eminence backed by 52 co-operating denominations expunged the verse of the false Trinity.You laugh loud but you only fool yourself.

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Larry
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Posted: 23 April 2012 at 1:18am

1 John 5:7 (New King James Version)

   "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (Gr. "Logos" referring to Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."

John 10:23-30:

   23. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch.
   24. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do you keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
   25. Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
   26. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
   27. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
   28. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
   29. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
   30. "I and My Father are one."

Matthew 16:13-17
   13. When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Phillippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
   14. So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
   15. He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
   16. Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
   17. Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

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iec786

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Posted: 25 April 2012 at 12:21pm

Originally posted by Larry

1 John 5:7 (New King James Version)

   "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (Gr. "Logos" referring to Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."

This verse does not exist according to your 32 scholars of the Highest eminence backed by 52 co-operating denominations.They expunged threw it out as a fabrication and an interpolation.please refer to my earlier post.

John 10:23-30:

   23. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch.
   24. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do you keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
   25. Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
   26. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
   27. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
   28. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
   29. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
   30. "I and My Father are one."

What do you want an explanation of the verse from me from me???or are you trying to say that God and Jesus are one as in a sausage??? I do not understand what you looking for please clarify.

Matthew 16:13-17
   13. When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Phillippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
   14. So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
   15. He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
   16. Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
   17. Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

Same story here please clarify,or would you like an explanation.

Now here is my Question to you.

Please give us one UNEQUIVOCAL statement where Jesus says ,I am God or where Jesus says worship me.

The key word here is not what John said or what Mark said or what anyone said.

I want an UNEQUIVOCAL STATEMENT.Ihope you understand English.

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Larry
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Posted: 25 April 2012 at 11:22pm

   You can demand "UNEQIVOCAL" statements from me all you want, but I have no intention of giving you one. I have given you many examples, including the ones in my last message, in the Gospels concerning Jesus as the Son of God. It's not my problem if you do not understand the Biblical passages I have presented for you after you asked me to do so.

   To repeat: John 10:30, where Jesus says,
   "I and My father are one."

   Matthew 16:15-17
   "He (Jesus) said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
   "Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.""
   "Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

   I didn't see any references to "sausages" in any of the quotes. If these passages do not answer your questions satisfactorily then I suppose nothing will.

   These statements are my UNEQIVOCAL answers to your questions. I cannot help it if you do not understand statements by Jesus Christ written in simple, clear English.

   As to your "32 SCHOLARS of the HIGHEST EMINENCE backed by 52 CO-OPERATING DENOMINATIONS who supposedly EXPUNGED threw it (the doctrine of the Holy Trinity) out as a FABRICATION and an INTERPOLATION."
   I have no idea of what you are talking about. My answers to you are based on the New King James Version of the Holy Bible, which is the most accurate and researched modern Bible in existence, based on existing Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic manuscripts and translations. I stress the point that the NKJV is based on EXISTING manuscripts and translations, none of the ORIGINAL, handwritten books of the Bible survive. Just as there is no ORIGINAL copy of the Qur'an as it (Hafsah's Codex) was deliberately destroyed by early Muslim authorities.

   As a MUSLIM, you are FREE to believe WHATEVER you want concerning the TRUE NATURE of JESUS CHRIST. Your beliefs have NO BEARING or RELEVANCE to ME or to my FAITH as a CHRISTIAN.

   That's as "UNEQUIVOCAL" as I can be, and it will be my FINAL answer to you concerning this particular subject.

John 3:16-17
   16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
   17. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

   To be perfectly clear as to my beliefs, I will repeat the "Apostles' Creed" used by my church and many others (in sometimes slightly different wording). This is a STATEMENT OF FAITH, not a translation of text from the Bible.

I BELIEVE IN GOD, THE FATHER ALMIGHTY, MAKER OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.
AND IN JESUS CHRIST, HIS ONLY SON, OUR LORD.
WHO WAS CONCEIVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT,
BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY,
SUFFERED UNDER PONTIUS PILATE,
WAS CRUCIFIED, DIED AND WAS BURIED,
ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD;
HE ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN,
AND SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, THE FATHER ALMIGHTY;
HE WILL COME TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD.
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT,
THE HOLY CATHOLIC (which means "universal," not referring to the Roman Catholic) CHURCH,
THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS,
THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS,
THE RESURRECTION OF THE BODY,
AND THE LIFE EVERLASTING.
AMEN




Edited by Larry - 26 April 2012 at 12:15am

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BMZ

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Posted: 26 April 2012 at 8:06am

Originally posted by Larry

1 John 5:7 (New King James Version)

   "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word (Gr. "Logos" referring to Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one."

John 10:23-30:

   23. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch.
   24. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do you keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
   25. Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
   26. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
   27. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
   28. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
   29. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
   30. "I and My Father are one."

Matthew 16:13-17
   13. When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Phillippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
   14. So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
   15. He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
   16. Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
   17. Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

Hello, Larry

A few points:

One cannot find Jesus telling the Jews publicly that he was the Messiah. He never declared openly that he was the Messiah.

Only to the woman at the well, who told him that she was waiting for the Messiah, he said, "I am he".

If he had already told them who he was, they would not have said to him, "How long do you keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."

Next: "I and My Father are one."

Just before that verse, every verse clearly shows that neither he was the Father nor the Father was he.

"I and My Father are one.", simply means "I and the Father are on the same side".

Jesus did not say, "The Father and I are the same person." and he is also not on record for saying publicly, "I am the Father".

Next:

Matthew 16:13-17 gets contradicted and blown away by John 1:40-42

"Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus.

The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). 42 And he brought him to Jesus."

Mark this: "We have found the Messiah" and note that there is no mention of 'the Son of the living God' at all.

Even Luke and Mark did not use the term, 'the Son of the living God'.

This shows that it was added into Matthew long after John appeared.

So, according to John, it was Andrew, the flesh and blood of Peter, who had revealed that Jesus was the Messiah, not the Father.

It is three against one!

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

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Larry
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Posted: 26 April 2012 at 3:06pm

Hello, BMZ,

   Your "analysis" of Biblical text leaves much to be desired.

    Your statement that, "I and My Father are one," simply means "I and the Father are on the same side," is "simply" your own personal interpretation of the text and is not supported by any Biblical verification.

   I also think it is interesting that whenever a Muslim wants to use the Bible to prove their points, they use "word-for-word" passages from the Bible to do so. Evidently there is no question of "corruption" of these particular passages in the Bible. However, many Muslims claim that the text of the New Testament is highly corrupted whenever that text contradicts any part of the text of the Qur'an. Either the Gospels are corrupt in their entirety or they are not, you can't have it both ways.

   You say, "One cannot find Jesus telling the Jews publicly that He was the Messiah. He never declared openly that He was the Messiah."

   Luke 22:66-71 disagrees with your position.

   66. "As soon as it was the day, the elders of the people, both chief priests and scribes, came together and led Him (Jesus) into their council, saying,"
   67. "If You are the Christ, tell us. But He said to them, "If I tell you, you will by no means believe."
   68. ""And if I also ask you, you will by no means answer Me or let Me go."
   69. "Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God."
   70. "Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God? So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am."
   71. "And they said, "What further testimony do we need? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth."

   Mark 14:53,60-64,

   53. "And they led Jesus away to the high priest; and with him were assembled all the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes."

   60. "And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, "Do You answer nothing (of the charges against Him)? What is it these men testify against You?"
   61. "But He (Jesus) kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
   62. "Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."
   63. "Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "What further need do we have of witnesses?"
   64. "You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?" "And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death."

   Matthew 26:62-65,

   62. "And the high priest arose and said to Him (Jesus), "Do you answer nothing? What is it these men testify against you?"
   63. "But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God?"
   64. "Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
   65. "Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, "He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy!"

   So your statement, "One cannot find Jesus telling the Jews publicly thyat He was the Messiah. He never declared openly that He was the Messiah." is incorrect.

And your statement that, "Even Luke and Mark did not use the term, "the Son of the living God." is technically correct because it was not Mark and Luke who used the term "Son of the living God." But you are factually wrong because Luke and Mark reported the words of the high priest. It was the high priest from the Jerusalem Temple who asked Jesus if He was the Son of God.

   You state, "This shows that it was added into Matthew long after John appeared," is simply your own opinion and has no foundation in fact because you do not know where and when the Gospels were written.

   And these are not the only statements made by Jesus Christ, concerning His divine nature, during the course of His ministry.

   Your comments on John 1:40-42 are simply uninformed.

   And your statement concerning the woman at the well, who told Jesus she was waiting for the Messiah, and Jesus answered her and said "I am He," is just another instance where Jesus reveals Himself as the Messiah.

   I have asked this of other Muslims before but now I am asking you, since you have used the Gospels to try and "prove" your ideas, which of the Gospels or parts of the Gospels are true and correct and what Gospels or parts of the Gospels are "corrupted" text?

   As I stated earlier, my belief is that whenever a Biblical or Gospel text supports the Islamic view, expressed in the Qur'an, it is accepted as "proof" that the Qur'an is true. But when a Biblical or Gospel text profoundly disagrees (which it does in many instances)with what is written in the Qur'an, the Biblical or Gospel text is simply declared to be "corrupted" text.

Larry

Edited by Larry - 26 April 2012 at 3:07pm

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iec786

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Posted: 26 April 2012 at 11:11pm

Originally posted by Larry

    You can demand "UNEQIVOCAL" statements from me all you want, but I have no intention of giving you one.

I do understand that you will not give us an "UNEQIVOCAL" statement,because it does not exist in the Bible that you hold in your hand.

I have given you many examples, including the ones in my last message, in the Gospels concerning Jesus as the Son of God.

SONS OF GOD : The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to
God.
(a) "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which
was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38
(b) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they
were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose.
   ". . . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of
men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty
men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4
(c) ". . . Thus saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my
FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22
(d) ". . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN." JEREMIAH 31:9
(e) ". . . Thou (O David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God)
BEGOTTEN thee." PSALMS 2:7

It's not my problem if you do not understand the Biblical passages I have presented for you after you asked me to do so.

   To repeat: John 10:30, where Jesus says,
   "I and My father are one."

does this verse say i am God ??????????
I am disappointed in you Larry,i think you can do much better then that.

This verse starts in Solomon's porch,

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The people that are with me my followers listen to me and they follow Jesus.What ever Jesus tells them to do they obey him,and no one will be able to convince them to go against the teachings of Jesus, because if you listen to Jesus and you follow him he promises his followers Heaven.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

In this verse Jesus says That all what was promised in the above verse was given as a command by God and no one can take it away from God and that God is greater than all human and non human and that includes Jesus.

"I and My father are one."
In this story that i posted GOD and Jesus are one in purpose,that i Jesus see to it that people remain in faith and God also sees to it that people do not go astray and in this you will see that Jesus is not talking of one as in omnipotence it one in purpose.not one in a sausage.

Matthew 16:15-17
   "He (Jesus) said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
   "Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.""
   "Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

SONS OF GOD : The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to
God.

   I didn't see any references to "sausages" in any of the quotes. If these passages do not answer your questions satisfactorily then I suppose nothing will.

   These statements are my UNEQIVOCAL answers to your questions. I cannot help it if you do not understand statements by Jesus Christ written in simple, clear English.

I understand what Jesus says my problem is i cannot understand the way you think or is it the way you want us to think according to your understanding yet the reality is something else.The devil has its way of doing things.

   As to your "32 SCHOLARS of the HIGHEST EMINENCE backed by 52 CO-OPERATING DENOMINATIONS who supposedly EXPUNGED threw it (the doctrine of the Holy Trinity) out as a FABRICATION and an INTERPOLATION."
   I have no idea of what you are talking about.

Well now i am giving you an idea.

http://forum.bible.org/blog/blogs/rick/lost_translation_3a_why_arent_these_verses_my_bible_1_john_57_8

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/1john57-exegesis.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

My answers to you are based on the New King James Version of the Holy Bible, which is the most accurate and researched modern Bible in existence, based on existing Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic manuscripts and translations. I stress the point that the NKJV is based on EXISTING manuscripts and translations, none of the ORIGINAL, handwritten books of the Bible survive.

I know that they are not in the original and hence the interpolations.

Just as there is no ORIGINAL copy of the Qur'an as it (Hafsah's Codex) was deliberately destroyed by early Muslim authorities.

Have you ever had an honest discussion on this or are you trying to justify the damaged Bible?????by mentioning the Quraan,which you know nothing about.

   As a MUSLIM, you are FREE to believe WHATEVER you want concerning the TRUE NATURE of JESUS CHRIST. Your beliefs have NO BEARING or RELEVANCE to ME or to my FAITH as a CHRISTIAN.

   That's as "UNEQUIVOCAL" as I can be, and it will be my FINAL answer to you concerning this particular subject.

John 3:16-17
   16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
   17. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."

Mr Larry, do not run away so fast.The verse you posted says BEGOTTEN.

begotten
To father; sire.

Is that what you are saying that God sired a Son????

   To be perfectly clear as to my beliefs, I will repeat the "Apostles' Creed" used by my church and many others (in sometimes slightly different wording). This is a STATEMENT OF FAITH, not a translation of text from the Bible.

I BELIEVE IN GOD, THE FATHER ALMIGHTY, MAKER OF HEAVEN AND EARTH.
AND IN JESUS CHRIST, HIS ONLY SON

This is not the gospel truth.
SONS OF GOD : The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to
God.
(a) "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which
was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38
(b) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they
were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose.
   ". . . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of
men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty
men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4
(c) ". . . Thus saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my
FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22
(d) ". . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN." JEREMIAH 31:9
(e) ". . . Thou (O David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God)
BEGOTTEN thee." PSALMS 2:7

, OUR LORD.
WHO WAS CONCEIVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT,
BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY,
SUFFERED UNDER PONTIUS PILATE,
WAS CRUCIFIED

are you positive??????read my book
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22951

, DIED AND WAS BURIED,
ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD;
HE ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN

the ascension was not in the RSV. Mark chap 16:16 and Mark 16:19 were again thrown out as fabrication by 32 christian bible scholars of highest eminence backed by 50 corporating denominations.
RSV ends on verse 8 (verses 9-20 were missing).
But in newer RSV verses 9-20 were restored in 1971.

,
AND SITS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, THE FATHER ALMIGHTY;
HE WILL COME TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD.
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT,
THE HOLY CATHOLIC (which means "universal," not referring to the Roman Catholic) CHURCH,
THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS,
THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS,
THE RESURRECTION OF THE BODY,
AND THE LIFE EVERLASTING.
AMEN

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BMZ

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Posted: 27 April 2012 at 7:11am

Originally posted by Larry

Hello, BMZ,

   Your "analysis" of Biblical text leaves much to be desired.

    Your statement that, "I and My Father are one," simply means "I and the Father are on the same side," is "simply" your own personal interpretation of the text and is not supported by any Biblical verification.

   I also think it is interesting that whenever a Muslim wants to use the Bible to prove their points, they use "word-for-word" passages from the Bible to do so. Evidently there is no question of "corruption" of these particular passages in the Bible. However, many Muslims claim that the text of the New Testament is highly corrupted whenever that text contradicts any part of the text of the Qur'an. Either the Gospels are corrupt in their entirety or they are not, you can't have it both ways.

   You say, "One cannot find Jesus telling the Jews publicly that He was the Messiah. He never declared openly that He was the Messiah."

   Luke 22:66-71 disagrees with your position.

   66. "As soon as it was the day, the elders of the people, both chief priests and scribes, came together and led Him (Jesus) into their council, saying,"
   67. "If You are the Christ, tell us. But He said to them, "If I tell you, you will by no means believe."
   68. ""And if I also ask you, you will by no means answer Me or let Me go."
   69. "Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God."
   70. "Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God? So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am."
   71. "And they said, "What further testimony do we need? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth."

   Mark 14:53,60-64,

   53. "And they led Jesus away to the high priest; and with him were assembled all the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes."

   60. "And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, "Do You answer nothing (of the charges against Him)? What is it these men testify against You?"
   61. "But He (Jesus) kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
   62. "Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."
   63. "Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "What further need do we have of witnesses?"
   64. "You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?" "And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death."

   Matthew 26:62-65,

   62. "And the high priest arose and said to Him (Jesus), "Do you answer nothing? What is it these men testify against you?"
   63. "But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God?"
   64. "Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
   65. "Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, "He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy!"

   So your statement, "One cannot find Jesus telling the Jews publicly thyat He was the Messiah. He never declared openly that He was the Messiah." is incorrect.

And your statement that, "Even Luke and Mark did not use the term, "the Son of the living God." is technically correct because it was not Mark and Luke who used the term "Son of the living God." But you are factually wrong because Luke and Mark reported the words of the high priest. It was the high priest from the Jerusalem Temple who asked Jesus if He was the Son of God.

   You state, "This shows that it was added into Matthew long after John appeared," is simply your own opinion and has no foundation in fact because you do not know where and when the Gospels were written.

   And these are not the only statements made by Jesus Christ, concerning His divine nature, during the course of His ministry.

   Your comments on John 1:40-42 are simply uninformed.

   And your statement concerning the woman at the well, who told Jesus she was waiting for the Messiah, and Jesus answered her and said "I am He," is just another instance where Jesus reveals Himself as the Messiah.

   I have asked this of other Muslims before but now I am asking you, since you have used the Gospels to try and "prove" your ideas, which of the Gospels or parts of the Gospels are true and correct and what Gospels or parts of the Gospels are "corrupted" text?

   As I stated earlier, my belief is that whenever a Biblical or Gospel text supports the Islamic view, expressed in the Qur'an, it is accepted as "proof" that the Qur'an is true. But when a Biblical or Gospel text profoundly disagrees (which it does in many instances)with what is written in the Qur'an, the Biblical or Gospel text is simply declared to be "corrupted" text.

Larry

I will do your post in parts.

Let us do "I and my Father are one" first. I and the Father are one WHAT?

John 10:30
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)

"I and the Father be one."

John 10:30
The Message (MSG)

"I and the Father are one heart and mind."

And the following translation blows away others:

John 10:30
Contemporary English Version (CEV)

" I am one with the Father."

This agrees with my assessment, which means "I am on the Father's side"

Jesus did not say, "I and the Father are the same person".

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

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Topic: The Holy Gospel did not evolve!
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