IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The Holy Gospel did not evolve!

Message

Originally posted by Larry

Hasan, 

   Once again you have misinterpreted the Bible. If, as you claim, that you read the Bible you surely would remember the Book of Revelation that presents in detail what will occur at the end of the world and the great Judgement before God. The Book of Revelation also predates Islam by centuries, so it is not a new idea in Islam. 

   Your other blatant misinterpretation of the role of Jesus Christ at the end of the world. Jesus Christ did indeed die for the sins of and for the Salvation of all mankind. This was because man and his sinful nature is not worthy on his own merits to go to Heaven and be in the presence of God. Jesus Christ's sacrifice makes it POSSIBLE for this to happen. No human is exempt from judgement 

   The Final Judgement at the end of the world is one of the bedrock beliefs of Christianity. So your statement that; "That means you believe that you will not go through Judgement by God on the Judgement Day, right?" 

   No, that is NOT right. You write; "We as a Muslims believe that every human will go through accountability." 

   We as Christians have believed that from the beginning of Christianity, centuries before the beginning of Islam in Arabia in the 7th century A.D. 

   As usual, you make unsubstantiated claims as to what Christians believe and then you present it as fact. You say; "the absolute law of the All Knowing is what He has revealed to His prophets for their respective times." You present the basics of Islam as presented in the Qur'an but constantly complain that WE should stay away from the Qur'an because the thread deals with Christianity. You make the statement to Jack; "since you don't believe in the Qur'an yet, you don't need to talk of it, as that would be hypocritical." 

   I guess that you are the only one who can talk about the Bible, which you don't believe in, but lecture Jack for doing the same thing. 

   Just another example of your hypocrisy. 

   I'll try and make it simple enough that even you can understand what the Bible says concerning Jesus Christ. 

   John 3:16-17 

   "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 

   "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." 

   Perhaps you should refrain from commenting on the beliefs of others when you do not understand what you are talking about and make ill-informed statements based on your own misunderstandings and mischaracterizations of what those beliefs are. 

Larry 

Larry, what will really happen at the Judgement Day? Knowledge of that is only with God. We only know as much we needed, and God has given us enough information for beleivers to straighten their acts, the disbeleivers will not fear or beleive it even if they see it coming unless God guide them. 
The book of revelation and the books of the OT and NT had been a source of guidence for the true beleivers for the times they were sent, they have served their purpose, now they are expired as they have been manipulated and altered by man, so they in their present state are inconsistent, against the quality of God and His word. There are many beautiful verses in the Bible, but then there are some very contradictory to be called word of God. 

Larry, correct me, but you seem to contradict yourself. You said that " Jesus Christ did indeed die for the sins of and for the Salvation of all mankind." And just few words away you wrote: "No human is exempt from judgement "
That is a contradiction that you if mankind has attained salvation then to say no one is exampt from salvation is a contradiction. On top this was your effort to divert attention from topic at hand. 

Larry, I only speak of what I have knowledge of. Only God knows all, I only know what he has made clear to me. I have many people in close circle that were Christian or Catholics before, so I only speak what I know through them as well as with help of books, and Christian preachers who approach me. Today I met a Coptic Christian from Egypt who I really wanted to ask one particular question. The question was, what do you beleif about Jesus being God, son of God or a man. His answer was clear, "we beleive Jesus to be a man, not God or son of God."
Like his answer, different denominations believe differently. My wife from Catholic and Christian background, long before she knew anything about Islam, tells me that she always thought of Jesus as a man, a prophet of God. 
And that is my point that according to the verses I have quoted from the Bible, Jesus was a man, born of a miracle, a prophet, who like you and me have a God, whom he prayed, worshipped, served and called for help in the times of need, according to the Bible.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 25 July 2011 at 4:39pm

Author	Message
honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 25 July 2011 at 4:08pm
	*Originally posted by Larry* Hasan, Once again you have misinterpreted the Bible. If, as you claim, that you read the Bible you surely would remember the Book of Revelation that presents in detail what will occur at the end of the world and the great Judgement before God. The Book of Revelation also predates Islam by centuries, so it is not a new idea in Islam. Your other blatant misinterpretation of the role of Jesus Christ at the end of the world. Jesus Christ did indeed die for the sins of and for the Salvation of all mankind. This was because man and his sinful nature is not worthy on his own merits to go to Heaven and be in the presence of God. Jesus Christ's sacrifice makes it POSSIBLE for this to happen. No human is exempt from judgement The Final Judgement at the end of the world is one of the bedrock beliefs of Christianity. So your statement that; "That means you believe that you will not go through Judgement by God on the Judgement Day, right?" No, that is NOT right. You write; "We as a Muslims believe that every human will go through accountability." We as Christians have believed that from the beginning of Christianity, centuries before the beginning of Islam in Arabia in the 7th century A.D. As usual, you make unsubstantiated claims as to what Christians believe and then you present it as fact. You say; "the absolute law of the All Knowing is what He has revealed to His prophets for their respective times." You present the basics of Islam as presented in the Qur'an but constantly complain that WE should stay away from the Qur'an because the thread deals with Christianity. You make the statement to Jack; "since you don't believe in the Qur'an yet, you don't need to talk of it, as that would be hypocritical." I guess that you are the only one who can talk about the Bible, which you don't believe in, but lecture Jack for doing the same thing. Just another example of your hypocrisy. I'll try and make it simple enough that even you can understand what the Bible says concerning Jesus Christ. John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." Perhaps you should refrain from commenting on the beliefs of others when you do not understand what you are talking about and make ill-informed statements based on your own misunderstandings and mischaracterizations of what those beliefs are. Larry Larry, what will really happen at the Judgement Day? Knowledge of that is only with God. We only know as much we needed, and God has given us enough information for beleivers to straighten their acts, the disbeleivers will not fear or beleive it even if they see it coming unless God guide them. The book of revelation and the books of the OT and NT had been a source of guidence for the true beleivers for the times they were sent, they have served their purpose, now they are expired as they have been manipulated and altered by man, so they in their present state are inconsistent, against the quality of God and His word. There are many beautiful verses in the Bible, but then there are some very contradictory to be called word of God. Larry, correct me, but you seem to contradict yourself. You said that " Jesus Christ did indeed die for the sins of and for the Salvation of all mankind." And just few words away you wrote: "No human is exempt from judgement " That is a contradiction that you if mankind has attained salvation then to say no one is exampt from salvation is a contradiction. On top this was your effort to divert attention from topic at hand. Larry, I only speak of what I have knowledge of. Only God knows all, I only know what he has made clear to me. I have many people in close circle that were Christian or Catholics before, so I only speak what I know through them as well as with help of books, and Christian preachers who approach me. Today I met a Coptic Christian from Egypt who I really wanted to ask one particular question. The question was, what do you beleif about Jesus being God, son of God or a man. His answer was clear, "we beleive Jesus to be a man, not God or son of God." Like his answer, different denominations believe differently. My wife from Catholic and Christian background, long before she knew anything about Islam, tells me that she always thought of Jesus as a man, a prophet of God. And that is my point that according to the verses I have quoted from the Bible, Jesus was a man, born of a miracle, a prophet, who like you and me have a God, whom he prayed, worshipped, served and called for help in the times of need, according to the Bible. Hasan Edited by honeto - 25 July 2011 at 4:39pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Larry Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 April 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 632	Posted: 25 July 2011 at 4:35pm
	Hasan, You meet the most fascinating people. You met a Coptic Christian who supposedly says, "We believe Jesus to be a man, not God or Son of God." That's like a Muslim saying, "I believe in Muhammad but not in the Qur'an or Allah." You go from the ridiculous to the absurd. You answer NONE of the direct, simple questions I asked you and your reply is self-serving as usual, simply a repeat of your personal beliefs concerning the Bible. You say; "There are a lot of problems with the Bible, every learned person will say that. Has it been as pure as when God sent it, you would find no such problems within it." You might find "problems" with the Bible but one of your main "sources" at the University of South Carolina, is not really the "every learned person will say that." I can name a number of highly prestigious and world renowned Biblical scholars, just as there are prestigious Islamic scholars. Anyone who thinks that there is ANY writing that is as "pure as when God said it" including the Qur'an, are deluding themselves. If the Qur'an was so "pure" why did the Caliph Uthman commission a standardized text while destroying at least four other versions that were not "pure"? When you criticize others as "Muslim bashers" you are as hypocritical as they come. If anyone is a "basher" it is you in your self-righteous beliefs and insults such as your ugly and intolerant statement to Jack who is a Catholic; "I hate to burst your bubble but Catholics are the greatest losers of the 20th century." You weasel out of any responsibility for having to answer the tough questions concerning the Qur'an and simply dismiss them and substitute your non answers. As to your other "question", "And let me get your clear answer (which you never do), are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus Christ paid for your sins with his "blood sacrifice?" Evidently you do not know how to read as I have answered this. Jesus Christ became the ultimate sacrifice in order to make it POSSIBLE, through belief in Him, for all mankind to achieve salvation. There was no more need for "animal sacrifices" because Jesus Christ made the ultimate sacrifice. So let me say it ONE MORE TIME; John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." As I said, anyone who seriously believes that the Qur'an is as pure and faithful word-for-word just as it came from God is simply naive and ill informed. As I asked, why did Caliph Uthman choose to decide on a standardized version from multiple copies of the Qur'an and destroy the others? I also agree that the Bible isn't "word for word" exactly the same, because anything written by people, even under divine inspiration, is subject to error. Even your Qur'an. Larry P.S. And one more thing. Eternal truths do not "expire" in the Holy Bible. Evidently the Qur'an feels differently about that. The Qur'an HAS to make things 'expire" or it's contents become difficult, if not impossible, to explain in a rational manner. Edited by Larry - 25 July 2011 at 4:55pm
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 26 July 2011 at 12:30pm
	*Originally posted by Larry* Hasan, You meet the most fascinating people. You met a Coptic Christian who supposedly says, "We believe Jesus to be a man, not God or Son of God." That's like a Muslim saying, "I believe in Muhammad but not in the Qur'an or Allah." You go from the ridiculous to the absurd. You answer NONE of the direct, simple questions I asked you and your reply is self-serving as usual, simply a repeat of your personal beliefs concerning the Bible. You say; "There are a lot of problems with the Bible, every learned person will say that. Has it been as pure as when God sent it, you would find no such problems within it." You might find "problems" with the Bible but one of your main "sources" at the University of South Carolina, is not really the "every learned person will say that." I can name a number of highly prestigious and world renowned Biblical scholars, just as there are prestigious Islamic scholars. Anyone who thinks that there is ANY writing that is as "pure as when God said it" including the Qur'an, are deluding themselves. If the Qur'an was so "pure" why did the Caliph Uthman commission a standardized text while destroying at least four other versions that were not "pure"? When you criticize others as "Muslim bashers" you are as hypocritical as they come. If anyone is a "basher" it is you in your self-righteous beliefs and insults such as your ugly and intolerant statement to Jack who is a Catholic; "I hate to burst your bubble but Catholics are the greatest losers of the 20th century." You weasel out of any responsibility for having to answer the tough questions concerning the Qur'an and simply dismiss them and substitute your non answers. As to your other "question", "And let me get your clear answer (which you never do), are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus Christ paid for your sins with his "blood sacrifice?" Evidently you do not know how to read as I have answered this. Jesus Christ became the ultimate sacrifice in order to make it POSSIBLE, through belief in Him, for all mankind to achieve salvation. There was no more need for "animal sacrifices" because Jesus Christ made the ultimate sacrifice. So let me say it ONE MORE TIME; John 3:16-17 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." As I said, anyone who seriously believes that the Qur'an is as pure and faithful word-for-word just as it came from God is simply naive and ill informed. As I asked, why did Caliph Uthman choose to decide on a standardized version from multiple copies of the Qur'an and destroy the others? I also agree that the Bible isn't "word for word" exactly the same, because anything written by people, even under divine inspiration, is subject to error. Even your Qur'an. Larry P.S. And one more thing. Eternal truths do not "expire" in the Holy Bible. Evidently the Qur'an feels differently about that. The Qur'an HAS to make things 'expire" or it's contents become difficult, if not impossible, to explain in a rational manner. Larry, I really met a Coptic, and that's what he told me, so I wrote that. I have heard of that before too, but this was first time I personally met one, so I asked and shared what I learned from him. Larry, the Topic is "the holy Gospel did not evolve". You have been trying to ask questions other than the topic just to dodge and distract and hide away from the truth I and others have exposed for you. And the only reason I have not asnwered some of those is for that reason. The reality is that neither you nor Jack had been able to address directly the verses that I have posted. The ones that show that Jesus is not God, or the One that shows the three of the Trinity are not equal. I think if you or Jack have any serious intention to get this resolved, pick up there! By the way if you two have forgotten those verses let me repeat them again: 2 Corinthians 11:31 "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, the one who is blessed forever, knows that I’m not lying..." John 14:28 " ........because the Father is greater than me." John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’” Please remember these are not my words, these are verses from the Bible. Can you or Jack address a single one of these, at least if you are even 10 percent true to what you claim you are? instead of distracting, avoiding, dodging, whining and insulting. Here is your chance! Hasan Edited by honeto - 26 July 2011 at 2:32pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Larry Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 April 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 632	Posted: 26 July 2011 at 2:57pm
	Hasan, To quote you; "You have been trying to ask questions other than the topic just to dodge and distract and hide away from the truth I and others have exposed for you. And the only reason I have not answered some of those is for that reason." What a bunch of B.S. Hasan. It took you days to come up with this lame excuse for running away from my five simple questions? You have a habit of accusing others for the very things that you do on an ongoing basis such as "dodging," "evading," and "distracting" the attention away from you when the questions get a little too real for you. For someone who is constantly bleating about "truth" you continue this pattern post after post. I have no intention of answering any more of your ridiculous, recycled and continuing ad nauseum questions based on your complete and total misunderstanding of Christianity and your almost bizarre habit of reading things that you don't understand in a literalist fashion that borders on childishness. Your cowardice is very typical of you and your "reasons" for not answering questions is as lame as they come, as are most of your other excuses for evading things that you have no answer for. Larry Edited by Larry - 27 July 2011 at 1:13am
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Jack Catholic Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 24 March 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 369	Posted: 26 July 2011 at 10:40pm
	Dear Hasan, You say you met a Coptic Christian and asked him a question: " The question was, what do you beleif about Jesus being God, son of God or a man. His answer was clear, "we beleive Jesus to be a man, not God or son of God." I checked a websight - http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/thecopticchurch/church3-1.html - to see what the Coptic Church officially teaches about Jesus in the Holy Trinity. If this man truly said what you claim he said, than he is not in line even with his own church, the Coptic Catholic Church. These following quotes from that websight show that the Coptic Catholic Church does indeed teach and believe exactly what the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church teaches and believes, and what all true Christians teach and believe, and that is that Jesus is a man and also God, and truly the Son of God. The first quote is the Coptic web sight quoting a Catholic saint: "St. Athanasius clarifies that the "Son" is called "the Word of God," to confirm the oneness of the essence, that no one may think in two essences." You see, the Coptic Catholic Church does indeed believe that Jesus, as the Holy Bible tells us, is the Son of God, and agrees with my earlier post which shows that the first century church even before St. John wrote the his Gospel of John believed that Jesus was the word of God who came down to take on humanity in the form of Jesus, a name that means "God is with us." Another quote from that websight: "Fire has three self-properties that look like the hypostasis, for it has flame, the light that is begotten of the flame, and the heat that proceeds from it." This quote is but another explanation of how Allah's creation reflects something of the nature of the one who created it, as Muhammad also claims in the Holy Qur'an. For you to claim that the Holy Qur'an is correct in it claim that Allah is one God and cannot have a Son, or be three persons is the contradiction of all contradiction contained in the Holy Qur'an, showing that it is infused with human addition and cannot be accepted as an authority on Allah. The Holy Bible, however, is consistant with Muhammad's words about creation reflecting the truth of the Creator, and also is consistant with itself on this truth. I have used many other examples of creation in trinity, one man's three rolls in life, one woman's three rolls, the three states of the one substance called water, the three corners of the one triangle, and so on. Remember, the thrust of your whole argument is consistancy... Here is the most clear expression of the Holy Trinity by the Coptic Catholic Church of Egypt in that web sight. You will notice the description of Allah as a Father, the Son Jesus as "Word incarnate", and the Holy Spirit: "It was very important to reveal the mystery of the Holy Trinity so that our salvation can be realized. The Father, Lover of men, sent His Word incarnate to bear our sins and pay our debts, and sent His Holy Spirit which raises us to His Glory." Regardless of your claim about that so-called Coptic believer you met, the Coptic Church is in agreement with both Larry and I, and the Holy Bible, and all of Christiandom about Jesus and His place in the Holy Trinity. It appears, Hasan, that you are again showing missunderstanding in your assertions about Christianity, and so are continuing to show yourself unqualified as an interpreter of the Holy Bible and its verses, and unqualified to make any believable claim that the Holy Bible evolved due to human alterations... I am sorry to say... All blessing of Allah be upon you, my friend Hasan, Jack Catholic
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 27 July 2011 at 8:10pm
	*Originally posted by Larry* Hasan, To quote you; "You have been trying to ask questions other than the topic just to dodge and distract and hide away from the truth I and others have exposed for you. And the only reason I have not answered some of those is for that reason." What a bunch of B.S. Hasan. It took you days to come up with this lame excuse for running away from my five simple questions? You have a habit of accusing others for the very things that you do on an ongoing basis such as "dodging," "evading," and "distracting" the attention away from you when the questions get a little too real for you. For someone who is constantly bleating about "truth" you continue this pattern post after post. I have no intention of answering any more of your ridiculous, recycled and continuing ad nauseum questions based on your complete and total misunderstanding of Christianity and your almost bizarre habit of reading things that you don't understand in a literalist fashion that borders on childishness. Your cowardice is very typical of you and your "reasons" for not answering questions is as lame as they come, as are most of your other excuses for evading things that you have no answer for. Larry Larry, I will not waste anymore words on you as you are not worth anymore spending a word other than what is in response to your covering up the truth. It seems you would wish that those quotes disappear over night, but such transformation will take a couple of more centuries dear. You wish to distract, and ask questions that are not related to the topic in order to avoid the one posed to you and the topic. If you are true to your cause and want to make yourself clean, please answer the quotes, even just one of them. Are you that of a little heart or your faith is not equal to a mustard seed that you run away from the real quotes and questions they pose and try to win on irrelevent or off topic matters and magnify them. Come on, have some dignity! Hasan Edited by honeto - 27 July 2011 at 8:12pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 27 July 2011 at 8:22pm
	*Originally posted by Jack Catholic* Dear Hasan, You say you met a Coptic Christian and asked him a question: " The question was, what do you beleif about Jesus being God, son of God or a man. His answer was clear, "we beleive Jesus to be a man, not God or son of God." I checked a websight - http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/thecopticchurch/church3-1.html - to see what the Coptic Church officially teaches about Jesus in the Holy Trinity. If this man truly said what you claim he said, than he is not in line even with his own church, the Coptic Catholic Church. These following quotes from that websight show that the Coptic Catholic Church does indeed teach and believe exactly what the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church teaches and believes, and what all true Christians teach and believe, and that is that Jesus is a man and also God, and truly the Son of God. The first quote is the Coptic web sight quoting a Catholic saint: "St. Athanasius clarifies that the "Son" is called "the Word of God," to confirm the oneness of the essence, that no one may think in two essences." You see, the Coptic Catholic Church does indeed believe that Jesus, as the Holy Bible tells us, is the Son of God, and agrees with my earlier post which shows that the first century church even before St. John wrote the his Gospel of John believed that Jesus was the word of God who came down to take on humanity in the form of Jesus, a name that means "God is with us." Another quote from that websight: "Fire has three self-properties that look like the hypostasis, for it has flame, the light that is begotten of the flame, and the heat that proceeds from it." This quote is but another explanation of how Allah's creation reflects something of the nature of the one who created it, as Muhammad also claims in the Holy Qur'an. For you to claim that the Holy Qur'an is correct in it claim that Allah is one God and cannot have a Son, or be three persons is the contradiction of all contradiction contained in the Holy Qur'an, showing that it is infused with human addition and cannot be accepted as an authority on Allah. The Holy Bible, however, is consistant with Muhammad's words about creation reflecting the truth of the Creator, and also is consistant with itself on this truth. I have used many other examples of creation in trinity, one man's three rolls in life, one woman's three rolls, the three states of the one substance called water, the three corners of the one triangle, and so on. Remember, the thrust of your whole argument is consistancy... Here is the most clear expression of the Holy Trinity by the Coptic Catholic Church of Egypt in that web sight. You will notice the description of Allah as a Father, the Son Jesus as "Word incarnate", and the Holy Spirit: "It was very important to reveal the mystery of the Holy Trinity so that our salvation can be realized. The Father, Lover of men, sent His Word incarnate to bear our sins and pay our debts, and sent His Holy Spirit which raises us to His Glory." Regardless of your claim about that so-called Coptic believer you met, the Coptic Church is in agreement with both Larry and I, and the Holy Bible, and all of Christiandom about Jesus and His place in the Holy Trinity. It appears, Hasan, that you are again showing missunderstanding in your assertions about Christianity, and so are continuing to show yourself unqualified as an interpreter of the Holy Bible and its verses, and unqualified to make any believable claim that the Holy Bible evolved due to human alterations... I am sorry to say... All blessing of Allah be upon you, my friend Hasan, Jack Catholic Jack, you would love to forget the topic at hand, as your interest in this off topic matter clearly showed. I really met this guy, and what he said that I wrote was truth that I heard from him and jsut wanted to share, God is my witness on that, and you will know it one day to be so. I, at this time and at this thread would not like to keep with that subject or any other as you and Larry has shown you two would wish, to go away with the matter at hand and let me remind you it is: "the Holy Gospel did not evolve" Now if you look at my last post and I challange you to take those three, or even just one, and asnwer it. I am not asking you to write a book, nor to write what other quotes there are that show Jesus is God, but address directly one of those three quotes I have written in my last post above. I hope you are true to your cause and will show it by sticking to the subject at hand and not looking around for ways to distract which only reveals how serious you really are in this matter or discussion. Hasan Edited by honeto - 27 July 2011 at 8:26pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Jack Catholic Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 24 March 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 369	Posted: 27 July 2011 at 11:27pm
	Dear Hasan, I think you mentioned the Coptic man in an attempt to show contradiction in Christian belief. I showed official Coptic teaching posted on the internet proving there is no contradiction. But just to continue the contradiction issue, today a couple who are friends with my wife and I went with us, our three children, and their six children to a nearby lake to swim for the day. Toward evening, about eight Muslim guys came out to swim, and while in the water they began joking about girls and using foul, filthy words in reference to them in their conversation, which was in English but occasionally sprinkled with Arabic, which I am somewhat familiar with. Now 5 of my friends six children are girls, and all of my children are girls. Jesus said in quote, "Do not hinder the children to come to me." Yet these men who supposedly follow the will of Allah were speaking in such a way as to give the impression that Allah, whome they are devoted to in obedience, thinks poorly of women in the most horrible ways. Why would my girls want to devote their lives to Allah if Allah does not think highly of them as women? I had to approach them and ask them to choose their words more carefully, as there were many innocent girl children within listening distance. They paused, said something in Arabic which I did not completely understand but which had to do with Allah, and they all laughed, but the horrible language ceased. Now, if these Muslim men believe in doing the will of Allah, why would they act in such a way as to give innocent girls the idea that Allah does not think too highly of them, and to do it in such a careless way? And why would they give such an incorrect impression of Allah when Jesus taught us that Allah loves us all, men and women both, so much that he would send his only son to die so that we would not be condemned for eternity for our sin? This is a true contradiction: Muslim behavior contradicting the teachings of Jesus. There you have it... a contradiction to match the contradiction you have tried to assert using a Coptic Christian from Egypt. I have prooven false the contradiction you asserted, but can you do the same with the contradiction I have asserted? For if you cannot prove the Holy Qur'an is not full of contradiction and therefore a falty source of revelation about Allah, then you may not use it as a source of criticism of the Holy Bible. About the three verses you have presented, I have already corrected your missinterpretation of the first two, 2 Corinthians 11:31, and John 14:28. If you recall, I showed that they were not contradictions using OT, NT, and first century Christian tradition. So now let us deal with third verse which you have produced... You wrote, "John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’” Let us not forget what I have already prooven using first century Christian belief and teaching, as well as NT scripture, and that is that Jesus is both fully God and fully man. In Jesus' divinity, he is one and the same as Allah himself. In Jesus' humanity, he is less that Allah, a Son who must obey His Father. As Jesus in John 20:17 is appearing visually to the woman, he is here speaking of His humanity. You see, divinity is not visible to the human eye, so it would be impossible for Jesus to be speaking of his divinity in saying that the woman is clinging to Him. Jesus is speaking of his humanity, so the verse fits and is not in contradiction. There you have a simple explanation that is based on a thorough, well proven president from NT and from first century Christian tradition and teaching. See? Simple, short and Sooooooooo, so, so, non-contradicting. Again, the evidence shows that the Holy Bible is not full of contradiction and therefore did not evolve due to human tampering. I hope you have more from your notebook than this to make your case, because you have again failed to do so. You are loosing, Hasan. When will you give and admit that the Christian Holy book is the full truth and nothing but the truth for all humanity for all time? If you cannot bring yourself to admit this truth, then produce more evidence than this failed evidence you have so far attempted to use to make your case, dear. But hey, Allah bless you in your struggles, Amen, Jack Catholic
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Topic: The Holy Gospel did not evolve!
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2 Corinthians 11:31 "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, the one who is blessed forever, knows that I’m not lying..."