IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The Holy Gospel did not evolve!

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   Dear Hasan, 

It seems that once again, the fire of this string of posts has ignighted.  I am falling behind just a little.  I'm responding to your post from page 19, your first on that page.

You said, "When a verse says; " God is One" I take it as such, and do not have any problem taking it as it is. I do not look for any other interpretaion, nor I try to find out what is the intention of who wrote it, nor that what else could it mean. For me it means, what is says: God is One."

Here I have to take issue with you.  You say that you take a verse as it says.  This is simply not true.  When I pointed out Surahs 2:97 and 16:101 (my quote and the Qur'anic verses follow this post as a P.S.) and how they showed contradiction, you simply...interpreted them.  You did not at all take them as they were written...I did and you corrected me.   You simply now are showing a double standard.  You are deliberately interpreting the Holy Bible according to external appearances when you will not allow such an interpretation for the Holy Qur'an.  This comment of yours alone has just destroyed your credability to all who are reading this string of posts. 

You are asserting your own personal interpretation using out-of-context verses and partial verses, and using denial of a great body of solid evidence that simply shows your opinion to be wrong.  You may claim to be a winner in this discussion, but no one accept IslamisPeace has come to your rescue, and not one person has come to your rescue with any evidence to support you.  There is nothing left for you but to admit defeat, Hasan.  I hate to be the bearer of such bad news, but you are loosing badly.

Yet, may Allah bless you still,

Jack Catholic

P.S. 
I had written:  "In Sura 2:97 the Qur'an claims to be a confirmation of the earlier revelation (as it does in many other verses), while in Sura 16:101 the Qur'an is viewed as "substituting" the earlier revelations."  Now, I will quote the Sura's in question: 

[Sura 2:97] Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers." 

[Sura 16:101] When we substitute one revelation in place of another, and GOD is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, "You made this up!" Indeed, most of them do not know. 

The rest of what I had written:  "And the people call him a forgerer exactly because it does not fit together with the established revelation of God."

Edited by Jack Catholic - 22 July 2011 at 9:57am

Author	Message
Jack Catholic Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 24 March 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 369	Posted: 22 July 2011 at 9:29am
	Dear Hasan, It seems that once again, the fire of this string of posts has ignighted. I am falling behind just a little. I'm responding to your post from page 19, your first on that page. You said, "When a verse says; " God is One" I take it as such, and do not have any problem taking it as it is. I do not look for any other interpretaion, nor I try to find out what is the intention of who wrote it, nor that what else could it mean. For me it means, what is says: God is One." Here I have to take issue with you. You say that you take a verse as it says. This is simply not true. When I pointed out Surahs 2:97 and 16:101 (my quote and the Qur'anic verses follow this post as a P.S.) and how they showed contradiction, you simply...interpreted them. You did not at all take them as they were written...I did and you corrected me. You simply now are showing a double standard. You are deliberately interpreting the Holy Bible according to external appearances when you will not allow such an interpretation for the Holy Qur'an. This comment of yours alone has just destroyed your credability to all who are reading this string of posts. You are asserting your own personal interpretation using out-of-context verses and partial verses, and using denial of a great body of solid evidence that simply shows your opinion to be wrong. You may claim to be a winner in this discussion, but no one accept IslamisPeace has come to your rescue, and not one person has come to your rescue with any evidence to support you. There is nothing left for you but to admit defeat, Hasan. I hate to be the bearer of such bad news, but you are loosing badly. Yet, may Allah bless you still, Jack Catholic P.S. I had written: "In Sura 2:97 the Qur'an claims to be a confirmation of the earlier revelation (as it does in many other verses), while in Sura 16:101 the Qur'an is viewed as "substituting" the earlier revelations." Now, I will quote the Sura's in question: [Sura 2:97] Say, "Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers." [Sura 16:101] When we substitute one revelation in place of another, and GOD is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, "You made this up!" Indeed, most of them do not know. The rest of what I had written: "And the people call him a forgerer exactly because it does not fit together with the established revelation of God." Edited by Jack Catholic - 22 July 2011 at 9:57am
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Jack Catholic Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 24 March 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 369	Posted: 22 July 2011 at 10:25am
	Dear Hasan, If you don't mind me asking, what exactly are you referring to in your wording which follows? This is from your post to Larry on page 18, written on July 19: "...one day will be used against you in the court of Absoulute Law of the All knowing, too bad you don't beleive in such accountability yet, I hope you do yourself a favor one day and submit to that truth. Only after that you will never stand up for what is not truth even if it brings you difficulties of this life." What is the "court of Absoulute Law of the All knowing"? How do you know that Larry does not believe in accountability? What truth are you hoping that Larry will submit too? How will "never standing up for what is not true" bring him "difficulties." And what difficulties will that bring him?" Look, I know that these things are off topic, but they apparantly are related, and yet veague. So explain yourself, and I will leave it at that... May Allah bless you, Hasan, Jack Catholic
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Jack Catholic Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 24 March 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 369	Posted: 22 July 2011 at 10:34am
	Dear Hasan, I am again writing you about your post to Larry from page 18. You wrote, "As always, I make my answers short, to the point, and I only speak of what I have knowledge of." As you seem to have ignored all of the OT and first century Christian evidence proving the real meaning of the verses which you have presented and missinterpreted, perhaps the message here is that you do not know much about the OT or the first century Catholic Church and its beliefs or those of its living leaders, the 12 Apostles. Since this appears to be the case, this further ruins your credibility on the issue of the evolution of the Holy Bible. Allah's blessings to you, Hasan, Jack Catholic
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Jack Catholic Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 24 March 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 369	Posted: 22 July 2011 at 10:53am
	Dear Larry, I have to say that you endured some pretty harsh treatement from IslamisPeace when you first began posting on this string, but you have held your own and shown yourself to be quite insightful regarding the weaknesses and flaws in the arguments of Hasan and his efforts to ruin the Holy Bible as a valid source of revelation from Yahweh (Allah). I must stand and salute your efforts. You are doing a great job. You did make a comment that I was putting too much time and effort into my posts to Hasan, and that he wasn't worth it. I just want to share with you something that IslamisPeace revealed to me. It is that there are more people than you and I, Hasan and IslamisPeace, reading these posts. If you look at the web page leading into this string of posts, there is a number under the heading "number of views," and every day the number goes up by at least 100 or more. That means that we have an audience of who knows how many readers out there. I do my research and posts now not just for Hasan (yes, they are mainly for Hasan), but also to inform a silent audience about the truth. We may never know how many people's lives are changed by the depth of evidence we show, or the attitude and manners we display when we write to those who do not agree with us ("They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love..."). Keep up the good work, Larry, and don't let others provoke you into less than Christian behavior, or cause you to loose the desire to offer deep, well thought out answers to tough questions or to issues that may appear obviouse to those of us who know the truth. May the love and peace of our Lord and Savior, of the God and Father who made and loves us, and of the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us bless you always, Amen, Jack Catholic
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islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 22 July 2011 at 11:25am
	*Originally posted by Larry* Hasan, Please spare us your tedious and boring REPETITIONS of the same flawed and incomplete understanding that there is only one God, but He is not limited by human understanding or by using "common sense." If you want to understand the true nature of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, you need only to read the Holy Bible, especially the New Testament, which will answer all your questions. But you will never do this so the point is moot. I would put my New King James Version of the Holy Bible up against the Holy Qur'an anytime, and invite the readers to make up their own minds about which text they find the superior in style and content. Since the Old Testament and the New Testament predate Islam by centuries or, in the case of the Old Testament, by millenia, it is obvious where the Qur'an got much of it's content. But stylistically the difference between the Holy Bible and the Qur'an is striking to say the least. The Old and New Testaments fit together and form a unified whole. The only text that differs dramatically from the Holy Bible is the Qur'an. But you to your faith and I to mine. Larry Oh how convenient. Mr. Larry lecturing someone about making REPETITIONS! How ironic, given that your entire M.O. is mindless repetition of the same nonsense. I can attest based on my experience conversing with you. But, all of your hypocrisy and mindless droning aside, I do agree with your last statement. Ironically, it is from the Holy Quran: "To you be your Way, and to me mine." (109:6) I couldn't agree more.
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Larry Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 April 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 632	Posted: 22 July 2011 at 11:32pm
	islamispeace, I was actually directing my statements to Hasan. I'm beginning to think that Hasan and islamispeace are the same person. They certainly think alike. Larry
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islamispeace Islam Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1417	Posted: 23 July 2011 at 3:05pm
	*Originally posted by Larry* islamispeace, I was actually directing my statements to Hasan. I'm beginning to think that Hasan and islamispeace are the same person. They certainly think alike. Larry Well, this is a new one! I think you should take a break Larry. The discussions seem to be having a negative affect on your reason, causing you to become paranoid and delusional. Rest assured that brother Hasan is not me and I am not him, although as Muslims we are part of the same body (Ummah), as the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "The believers are like one person; if his head aches, the whole body aches with fever and sleeplessness." [Sahih Muslim, 32:6260]
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 23 July 2011 at 4:27pm
	*Originally posted by Larry* Hasan, Please spare us your tedious and boring REPETITIONS of the same flawed and incomplete understanding that there is only one God, but He is not limited by human understanding or by using "common sense." If you want to understand the true nature of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, you need only to read the Holy Bible, especially the New Testament, which will answer all your questions. But you will never do this so the point is moot. I would put my New King James Version of the Holy Bible up against the Holy Qur'an anytime, and invite the readers to make up their own minds about which text they find the superior in style and content. Since the Old Testament and the New Testament predate Islam by centuries or, in the case of the Old Testament, by millenia, it is obvious where the Qur'an got much of it's content. But stylistically the difference between the Holy Bible and the Qur'an is striking to say the least. The Old and New Testaments fit together and form a unified whole. The only text that differs dramatically from the Holy Bible is the Qur'an. But you to your faith and I to mine. Larry Larry, please, it was the reading and study of the Bible that made me to conclude and confirm that Bible in its present state is not pure word of God. More I read it more I confirmed the truth that in its present state it does not represents the All Knowing. When I had not read it, way back many years ago, when I had not even touched it, I had more respect for it (not that I disrespecct it now). but now that I know it and read it, its like day and night. Its contents show that it is inconsistent within itself, and thus it cannot be claimed as pure word of God. If you know your Bible, you would also know that difference between NT and OT on who God is, status of Jesus, and Salvation is also in disagreement. There are many other issues that are in disagreement between the two. Hasan Edited by honeto - 23 July 2011 at 4:29pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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