IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Aadam and Prophets before ’Eesa (Jesus)

Author

Message

Israfil

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 08 September 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3984

Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:09pm

By the Way how humans have calculated time and history used
the Christian Calendar such as B.C (before Christ) and A.D
(after Death) as far as human history is concerned the
calculation of human history based on the advent of Jesus is
incorrect timetable because for example to say the Homo
Sapien came approx 100,000 B.C is not scientifically correct
because B.C implies at least some type of civilization usually
B.C refers to before the time of Christ but was also allocated to
some type of civilization/or person. But this is all my
understanding and from the professors of physics and biology
in which I studied under. this is why we use the term B.C.E
(Before Common Era) and C.E (Common Era)

IP Logged

AhmadJoyia

Senior Member

Joined: 20 March 2005
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1161

Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:32pm

Dear Israfil,

If I am not offending my christian brothers, I think, academicians have serious objections on the very advent and existance of Christ in this real world. According to them, there was no such person in entire human history with such traits as are usually ascribed to him by NT. So they were cautioned not to mix up the scientific arguments based on hypothetical (according to them) time frame of BC, so they started using B.C.E.

IP Logged

-ArabianKnight-

Guest Group

Joined: 29 July 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 227

Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:38pm

Originally posted by Israfil

By the Way how humans have calculated time and history used
the Christian Calendar such as B.C (before Christ) and A.D
(after Death) as far as human history is concerned the
calculation of human history based on the advent of Jesus is
incorrect timetable because for example to say the Homo
Sapien came approx 100,000 B.C is not scientifically correct
because B.C implies at least some type of civilization usually
B.C refers to before the time of Christ but was also allocated to
some type of civilization/or person. But this is all my
understanding and from the professors of physics and biology
in which I studied under. this is why we use the term B.C.E
(Before Common Era) and C.E (Common Era)

Actually Israfil, AD is Annos Domini, In the Year of the Lord, or somtimes in latin also appears as Anno Domini Nostri Jesu Christi, In the year of our Lord Jesus Christ.. etc..

But I just assumed when He said Evolution as implying Spiritual evolution... you know?.. It does make sense.. people became more spirtually evolved when the Messiah (Jesus The Christ, Son of Mary) came...

But MOCKBA mentioning darwin in the same sentence - kind of throws that all off... hmm... very perplexing.. no?

THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
_____________________________

IP Logged

MOCKBA

Moderator Group

Joined: 27 September 2000
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1410

Posted: 22 March 2005 at 8:11pm

The thread has developed into some chicanes. Appreciate all the inputs:

I was more interested in the importance attributed to Aadam, Noah, Solomon (peace be upon them all) by Christians. Are they disregarded as messengers of God? Are they religious... significant? Or are they mere members of those early civilizations that have not evolved completely both physically and spiritually as they lived before the advent of Jesus? Where was God, early then (from Christian perspective)?

MOCKBA

IP Logged

DavidC

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 20 September 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2211

Posted: 23 March 2005 at 5:24am

AhmadJoyia and Israfil - the human life of Jesus is well documented by
Jews, Romans, etc. As for Darwin, I doon't quite get the reference but
everything made by God changes. God even changed his own mind when
confronted by Muhummud about the times of salat.

As to Adam, Solomon, etc. they are of extreme importance but in
Christianity. Please remember the God the Father/Son/Holy Spirit is a
symbolic way of describing a single all powerful God.

In any event, direct questions and doubts are most welcome and are not
rude. Strict intellectual challenging of Christian dogma is a necessary
form of prayer.

DavidC (hopefully getting back on track)

Edited by DavidC

IP Logged

AhmadJoyia

Senior Member

Joined: 20 March 2005
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1161

Posted: 23 March 2005 at 7:09am

Oh, I am sorry, my fault that I diverted from the main topic. So coming to the topic, I don't know if all the christian have the same perspective about the prophets before Jesus, but as I think the way the Bible (of course the OT) describe them all and how Bible (NT) then try to harmonize their description with the later development of christian theology, can be seen through famous Christian dogma. As I shall try to put it in words, plz do excuse me if I am wrong or mistaken in it.

Since all before Jesus sinned, everyone including Moses, Noah, etc, they all fall short of glory of God to remove the burdon of original sin from the mankind. Finally, God himself has to come down to earth to wash the burdon of original sin for the salvation of the mankind forever thereafter. Probably, it is in this perspective that your friend, Bro MOCKBA, is analogically correlating the final evolutionary state of humans. I would expect more thoughts on this from all directions. Cheers!

IP Logged

MOCKBA

Moderator Group

Joined: 27 September 2000
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1410

Posted: 23 March 2005 at 7:22pm

Originally posted by DavidC

God even changed his own mind when
confronted by Muhummud about the times of salat.

Allow me to make important correction. The times and frequencies of salaat changed (and even that only within the context of miraj, the night journey, and not after they have been established) but i would not encourage going as far as attributing any changes to "God's mind".

It was not a confrontation, wet-market bargain sort, or a business negotiation kind in search of some consensus between the parties... it did not take the form of questioning Allaah and doubting His decision, as it did in the case of Iblis. The unimaginable perfection of Allaah, who is al-Mutakkabbir - The Supreme in Greatness, is in no need of His creation advising Him on affairs... or correcting Him. For there is not a neutron of thought of which He is not aware of, be it in the future or in the past or in-between. It was, and is part of Allaah's plan, from which some deduce the humbleness of Muhammad (peace be upon him) others the Mercy and many other attributes of Allaah, the Most Merciful.

Originally posted by DavidC

As to Adam, Solomon, etc. they are of extreme importance but in
Christianity.

I read it as they are NOT of importance. And therefore Christianity is not in complete disagreement with what today's science attempts to suggest: that life BC was mainly of neanderthal nature... both spiritually and perhaps more earlier - physically. Makes one ponder over what was Aadam (peace be upon him) like... from Christian perspective. An incomplete human being?

There are no intended traps, after all this is an Interfaith Dialogue. The question was as direct as I could think of at the moment. Perhaps it can develop into some specifics as there are more inputs, insha Allaah.

MOCKBA

IP Logged

zulkharnain

Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 22 March 2005
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 19

Posted: 24 March 2005 at 2:00am

Jesus the son of Virgin Mary is a prophet of God

He preached the oneness of God very few people originally believed him. The jews in all became his enemies and they tried to kill him. He was raised to the heaven alive and shall appear once again alive befor the day of judgement. After this those who called them christians believed him to be God. But he shall die one day. God does not die, he was neither crated, born or shall die. He is not a human being. Jesus was born without a father, just like Adam without any parent!

Read Quran for details.

May Allah bless u

IP Logged

	Active Topics Memberlist Calendar Search Help
	Register Login Old Forum

Interfaith Dialogue
IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue

Topic: Aadam and Prophets before ’Eesa (Jesus)
	<< Prev Page of 4 Next >>

Author	Message
Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:09pm
	By the Way how humans have calculated time and history used the Christian Calendar such as B.C (before Christ) and A.D (after Death) as far as human history is concerned the calculation of human history based on the advent of Jesus is incorrect timetable because for example to say the Homo Sapien came approx 100,000 B.C is not scientifically correct because B.C implies at least some type of civilization usually B.C refers to before the time of Christ but was also allocated to some type of civilization/or person. But this is all my understanding and from the professors of physics and biology in which I studied under. this is why we use the term B.C.E (Before Common Era) and C.E (Common Era)
	IP Logged

AhmadJoyia Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 1161	Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:32pm
	Dear Israfil, If I am not offending my christian brothers, I think, academicians have serious objections on the very advent and existance of Christ in this real world. According to them, there was no such person in entire human history with such traits as are usually ascribed to him by NT. So they were cautioned not to mix up the scientific arguments based on hypothetical (according to them) time frame of BC, so they started using B.C.E.
	IP Logged

-ArabianKnight- Guest Group Joined: 29 July 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 227	Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:38pm
	*Originally posted by Israfil* By the Way how humans have calculated time and history used the Christian Calendar such as B.C (before Christ) and A.D (after Death) as far as human history is concerned the calculation of human history based on the advent of Jesus is incorrect timetable because for example to say the Homo Sapien came approx 100,000 B.C is not scientifically correct because B.C implies at least some type of civilization usually B.C refers to before the time of Christ but was also allocated to some type of civilization/or person. But this is all my understanding and from the professors of physics and biology in which I studied under. this is why we use the term B.C.E (Before Common Era) and C.E (Common Era) Actually Israfil, AD is Annos Domini, In the Year of the Lord, or somtimes in latin also appears as Anno Domini Nostri Jesu Christi, In the year of our Lord Jesus Christ.. etc.. But I just assumed when He said Evolution as implying Spiritual evolution... you know?.. It does make sense.. people became more spirtually evolved when the Messiah (Jesus The Christ, Son of Mary) came... But MOCKBA mentioning darwin in the same sentence - kind of throws that all off... hmm... very perplexing.. no?
	THere Is no god, BUT GOD and Adam was his First Messenger _____________________________
	IP Logged

MOCKBA Moderator Group Joined: 27 September 2000 Location: Malaysia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1410	Posted: 22 March 2005 at 8:11pm
	The thread has developed into some chicanes. Appreciate all the inputs: I was more interested in the importance attributed to Aadam, Noah, Solomon (peace be upon them all) by Christians. Are they disregarded as messengers of God? Are they religious... significant? Or are they mere members of those early civilizations that have not evolved completely both physically and spiritually as they lived before the advent of Jesus? Where was God, early then (from Christian perspective)? MOCKBA
	IP Logged

DavidC Senior Member Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2211	Posted: 23 March 2005 at 5:24am
	AhmadJoyia and Israfil - the human life of Jesus is well documented by Jews, Romans, etc. As for Darwin, I doon't quite get the reference but everything made by God changes. God even changed his own mind when confronted by Muhummud about the times of salat. As to Adam, Solomon, etc. they are of extreme importance but in Christianity. Please remember the God the Father/Son/Holy Spirit is a symbolic way of describing a single all powerful God. In any event, direct questions and doubts are most welcome and are not rude. Strict intellectual challenging of Christian dogma is a necessary form of prayer. DavidC (hopefully getting back on track) Edited by DavidC
	IP Logged

AhmadJoyia Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 1161	Posted: 23 March 2005 at 7:09am
	Oh, I am sorry, my fault that I diverted from the main topic. So coming to the topic, I don't know if all the christian have the same perspective about the prophets before Jesus, but as I think the way the Bible (of course the OT) describe them all and how Bible (NT) then try to harmonize their description with the later development of christian theology, can be seen through famous Christian dogma. As I shall try to put it in words, plz do excuse me if I am wrong or mistaken in it. Since all before Jesus sinned, everyone including Moses, Noah, etc, they all fall short of glory of God to remove the burdon of original sin from the mankind. Finally, God himself has to come down to earth to wash the burdon of original sin for the salvation of the mankind forever thereafter. Probably, it is in this perspective that your friend, Bro MOCKBA, is analogically correlating the final evolutionary state of humans. I would expect more thoughts on this from all directions. Cheers!
	IP Logged

MOCKBA Moderator Group Joined: 27 September 2000 Location: Malaysia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1410	Posted: 23 March 2005 at 7:22pm
	*Originally posted by DavidC* God even changed his own mind when confronted by Muhummud about the times of salat. Allow me to make important correction. The times and frequencies of salaat changed (and even that only within the context of miraj, the night journey, and not after they have been established) but i would not encourage going as far as attributing any changes to "God's mind". It was not a confrontation, wet-market bargain sort, or a business negotiation kind in search of some consensus between the parties... it did not take the form of questioning Allaah and doubting His decision, as it did in the case of Iblis. The unimaginable perfection of Allaah, who is al-Mutakkabbir - The Supreme in Greatness, is in no need of His creation advising Him on affairs... or correcting Him. For there is not a neutron of thought of which He is not aware of, be it in the future or in the past or in-between. It was, and is part of Allaah's plan, from which some deduce the humbleness of Muhammad (peace be upon him) others the Mercy and many other attributes of Allaah, the Most Merciful. *Originally posted by DavidC* As to Adam, Solomon, etc. they are of extreme importance but in Christianity. I read it as they are NOT of importance. And therefore Christianity is not in complete disagreement with what today's science attempts to suggest: that life BC was mainly of neanderthal nature... both spiritually and perhaps more earlier - physically. Makes one ponder over what was Aadam (peace be upon him) like... from Christian perspective. An incomplete human being? There are no intended traps, after all this is an Interfaith Dialogue. The question was as direct as I could think of at the moment. Perhaps it can develop into some specifics as there are more inputs, insha Allaah. MOCKBA
	IP Logged

zulkharnain Newbie Joined: 22 March 2005 Location: India Online Status: Offline Posts: 19	Posted: 24 March 2005 at 2:00am
	Jesus the son of Virgin Mary is a prophet of God He preached the oneness of God very few people originally believed him. The jews in all became his enemies and they tried to kill him. He was raised to the heaven alive and shall appear once again alive befor the day of judgement. After this those who called them christians believed him to be God. But he shall die one day. God does not die, he was neither crated, born or shall die. He is not a human being. Jesus was born without a father, just like Adam without any parent! Read Quran for details.
	May Allah bless u
	IP Logged