IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Aadam and Prophets before ’Eesa (Jesus)

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DavidC

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Posted: 24 March 2005 at 4:43am

Thank you for your kind correction. If I can help Muslims understand
your prophet Jesus a little better I will be happy, and I welcome the
opportunity to learn more about Islam and understand Christianity better.

Please do not let remain ignorant under guise of avoiding disagreement
or possible offense. Youier corrections of my misunderstandings are of
utmost importance!

Muslims seem to avoid the multiple layers of meaning in theQuran out of
humility. The Bible also has many layers of symbolic meaning, and well
meaning Muslims also avoid those. This is wrong, because Christian
humility assumes we will be wrong in our interpretations.

An old sufii saying - "Seek the water and not the pitcher".

I am ramblimg - and eagery await the next question.

DavidC

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Israfil

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Posted: 24 March 2005 at 6:27pm

Where doesArabian Knight and David C thinking of me denying the time frame of Jesus? David for your infor bro I never questioned the time frame of Jesus I merely stated that scientist when explaining the history of a particular object/entity rather using the Christian concept of calculating time i.e B.C and A.D they use another terminology not religiously based such as B.C.E. and C.E...By the way brother Arabian Knight thanks for the explanation though I already knew their latin roots I appreciate clarification...

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Israfil

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Posted: 24 March 2005 at 6:29pm

Hmm "our prophet Jesus?" doesn't sound like the "bridging the gap" David C to me but on the other hand to subscribe to the "Muslim Jesus" would denounce the Christian concept of Jesus how interesting....

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yesha`

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Posted: 26 March 2005 at 7:48pm

Originally posted by MOCKBA

Have been curious lately on Christians' view of Aadam, Noah and Prophets that have appeared before 'Eesa, peace be upon them all. What is their status in the Bible (the most common one)? Are they Prophets? Saints?

According to someone's (who considers himself an Orthodox Christian) very raw explanation, the human being did not not completely evolve until the appearance of Jesus. And therefore history starts from his advent. This seemed to me a hybrid view between Darwinism and some branch of Christianity.

The Islaamic position to me is clear, alhamdulillah.

Thought of taking a short cut and ask someone who has done research and is more informed on the subject from the Christian perspective.

MOCKBA

The prophets are normal human beings, sons of Adam, who have been called by God to speak his message. However, they are not infallable, as some muslims believe their prophets are. They have all sinned, and hence require God's mercy to be reconciled to God that same as every one else, aside from Jesus.

To learn more about them check out these articals under prophecy.

http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?action=Alpha&am p;letter=P

Saints are simply believers. That is all Christians are saints.

http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T7564

As for this evolution, I can only guess he's referring to the idea that in Christ Jesus, Christians are a new creation, a new mankind, not from Adam, but from Jesus through the Holy Spirit. This new spiritual being will be given a new body in the new creation.

Edited by yesha`

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Israfil

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Posted: 27 March 2005 at 6:52pm

Yesha wrote:

"As for this evolution, I can only guess he's referring to the idea that in Christ Jesus, Christians are a new creation, a new mankind, not from Adam, but from Jesus through the Holy Spirit. This new spiritual being will be given a new body in the new creation."

Seeing how Judaism is 1,000 years before the creation of Christianity what about the Jews are they not apart of creation if so are they considered the new creation? Though this is quite laughable I wish for you to expand on your assertion.

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yesha`

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Posted: 27 March 2005 at 8:38pm

Originally posted by Israfil

http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T5752

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Israfil

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Posted: 28 March 2005 at 5:14pm

I said expand on your assertion not give me websites, almost every website is bias so showing me a website is no better than stating your own opinion...So again your explanation.

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yesha`

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Posted: 28 March 2005 at 8:47pm

Originally posted by Israfil

I said expand on your assertion not give me websites, almost every website is bias so showing me a website is no better than stating your own opinion...So again your explanation.

The site I posesed is simply an artical from the 1927 ISBE (international standard bible encyclopedia), though somewhat dated, it should sufficiently explain the concept.

Because Christians have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they are new creations. Those in Christ are born of the Spirit (Christ), not just the flesh (Adam). Thus Jesus is a new Adam. Which is perhaps what the person meant by evolved.

John 3:3 niv
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

Edited by yesha`

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Topic: Aadam and Prophets before ’Eesa (Jesus)
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Author	Message
DavidC Senior Member Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2211	Posted: 24 March 2005 at 4:43am
	Thank you for your kind correction. If I can help Muslims understand your prophet Jesus a little better I will be happy, and I welcome the opportunity to learn more about Islam and understand Christianity better. Please do not let remain ignorant under guise of avoiding disagreement or possible offense. Youier corrections of my misunderstandings are of utmost importance! Muslims seem to avoid the multiple layers of meaning in theQuran out of humility. The Bible also has many layers of symbolic meaning, and well meaning Muslims also avoid those. This is wrong, because Christian humility assumes we will be wrong in our interpretations. An old sufii saying - "Seek the water and not the pitcher". I am ramblimg - and eagery await the next question. DavidC
	IP Logged

Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 24 March 2005 at 6:27pm
	Where doesArabian Knight and David C thinking of me denying the time frame of Jesus? David for your infor bro I never questioned the time frame of Jesus I merely stated that scientist when explaining the history of a particular object/entity rather using the Christian concept of calculating time i.e B.C and A.D they use another terminology not religiously based such as B.C.E. and C.E...By the way brother Arabian Knight thanks for the explanation though I already knew their latin roots I appreciate clarification...
	IP Logged

Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 24 March 2005 at 6:29pm
	Hmm "our prophet Jesus?" doesn't sound like the "bridging the gap" David C to me but on the other hand to subscribe to the "Muslim Jesus" would denounce the Christian concept of Jesus how interesting....
	IP Logged

yesha` Newbie Joined: 26 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 12	Posted: 26 March 2005 at 7:48pm
	*Originally posted by MOCKBA* Have been curious lately on Christians' view of Aadam, Noah and Prophets that have appeared before 'Eesa, peace be upon them all. What is their status in the Bible (the most common one)? Are they Prophets? Saints? According to someone's (who considers himself an Orthodox Christian) very raw explanation, the human being did not not completely evolve until the appearance of Jesus. And therefore history starts from his advent. This seemed to me a hybrid view between Darwinism and some branch of Christianity. The Islaamic position to me is clear, alhamdulillah. Thought of taking a short cut and ask someone who has done research and is more informed on the subject from the Christian perspective. MOCKBA The prophets are normal human beings, sons of Adam, who have been called by God to speak his message. However, they are not infallable, as some muslims believe their prophets are. They have all sinned, and hence require God's mercy to be reconciled to God that same as every one else, aside from Jesus. To learn more about them check out these articals under prophecy. http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?action=Alpha&am p;letter=P Saints are simply believers. That is all Christians are saints. http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T7564 As for this evolution, I can only guess he's referring to the idea that in Christ Jesus, Christians are a new creation, a new mankind, not from Adam, but from Jesus through the Holy Spirit. This new spiritual being will be given a new body in the new creation. Edited by yesha`
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Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 27 March 2005 at 6:52pm
	Yesha wrote: "As for this evolution, I can only guess he's referring to the idea that in Christ Jesus, Christians are a new creation, a new mankind, not from Adam, but from Jesus through the Holy Spirit. This new spiritual being will be given a new body in the new creation." Seeing how Judaism is 1,000 years before the creation of Christianity what about the Jews are they not apart of creation if so are they considered the new creation? Though this is quite laughable I wish for you to expand on your assertion.
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yesha` Newbie Joined: 26 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 12	Posted: 27 March 2005 at 8:38pm
	*Originally posted by Israfil* Seeing how Judaism is 1,000 years before the creation of Christianity what about the Jews are they not apart of creation if so are they considered the new creation? Though this is quite laughable I wish for you to expand on your assertion. http://www.studylight.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T5752
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Israfil Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3984	Posted: 28 March 2005 at 5:14pm
	I said expand on your assertion not give me websites, almost every website is bias so showing me a website is no better than stating your own opinion...So again your explanation.
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yesha` Newbie Joined: 26 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 12	Posted: 28 March 2005 at 8:47pm
	*Originally posted by Israfil* I said expand on your assertion not give me websites, almost every website is bias so showing me a website is no better than stating your own opinion...So again your explanation. The site I posesed is simply an artical from the 1927 ISBE (international standard bible encyclopedia), though somewhat dated, it should sufficiently explain the concept. Because Christians have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they are new creations. Those in Christ are born of the Spirit (Christ), not just the flesh (Adam). Thus Jesus is a new Adam. Which is perhaps what the person meant by evolved. John 3:3 niv In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." Edited by yesha`
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