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Interfaith Dialogue
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2012 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart

As to the second - "inter-mixing of the faith the pagan systems"

You mean like the worshiping at the Kabba that the pagans did long before Muhammad came along with the religion of Islam?  Like the inclusion of the Jinn in the word Muhammad 'revealed' from god?  Yes culture and religion always influence one another.

 
Peter was the chosen disciple of Jesus (pbuh) to preach to the people after he was gone. Paul came to Jerusalem and overthrew the true disciples of Jesus (pbuh) and started a new religion all by himself.
 
As I said in another thread, prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) built the Ka'ba in Mecca with his son Ishmael and the worship system that was instigated was how God wanted it to be. Then through the ages it disintegrated to idol worship culminating in about 360 idols being placed inside the Ka'ba at the time of prophet Muhammed. This is the very same reason why God wanted to destroy the idols and re-establish monotheism as started by prophet Ibrahim (pbuh).
 
Islam is the only religion in the world where true monotheism is perfected. As I have said repeatedly, it was ordered by God Almighty through the angel Jibril (AS).


Greetings Abu Loren,
(I don't know why, I just want to say "Greetings Abu".  It has a nice sound to it.  Smile)

Anyway... Regarding Peter and Paul...
I can easily see how you might see it this way.  But we have the eyewitness of many to Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus.  We have the account of his blindness.  We have the eyewitness of Ananais being sent to him by God. 

So yes, you would have to believe in the conversion of Paul and the vision of God coming to him and speaking to him.
Aside from all that, I find nothing in the teaching of Paul that is reprehensible or disagreeable to what was taught by Jesus himself.  In fact Paul teaches against the same things that Muhammad taught against.
I agree that the church is not what Jesus would want and that Paul had a hand in that... the building of the church... but his teachings are sound if you go by the Book.

Regarding the Kabba and Ishmael and Abraham...
Yes, we probably have spoken about this, and I have probably said this before...
If this is so then why is there no recorded writing of it anywhere in history?
It is my understanding that the Kabba has everything to do with the 'rock that was sent down from heaven'.
"Islam is the only religion in the world where true monotheism is perfected. As I have said repeatedly, it was ordered by God Almighty through the angel Jibril (AS)."
Saying it repeatedly will not make it so.  But you do make me think about this...
'the only religion where monotheism is perfected'
What about the Jews?  They only worship one God.
And so do the Christians, the way they understand it in their hearts, and from the mouth of Jesus Himself.  (Which I know you will reject, but what about the Jews?)

Why is Islam in your mind the only religion where monotheism is perfected?

Why do you believe anything in this world can be perfected?

Do you not attribute a great deal to man, of which he is not capable, as long as satan is still around?

Salaam,
Caringheart
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2012 at 4:13am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Matt Browne

As a modern Christian, Abu, I believe in critical thinking. You are just repeating what has been Islamic doctrine for the past 1400 years. So no surprise here. I also believe in interfaith dialog based on tolerance and mutual respect. Religious beliefs differ. There's no need to use words like lies. How would it make you feel if a zealous Christian told you that Allah talking to Muhammad through Jibreel was a lie? But I'm not zealous. I respect your belief.



As'alaamu Alaikkum

I used the word "LIE" because Christianity is founded on a lie or lies. For example, there is no evidence or eye witnesses to the experience Paul had on the road to Damascus. And as Jesus (pbuh) was not crucified then there is no way that Paul would have 'seen' the risen Christ. And we all know about the inter-mixing of the faith the pagan systems, don't we?


You claim that Christianity is founded on a lie or lies. But your claim doesn't make this true. Religious beliefs involve symbolic meanings. There is no evidence that the angel Gabriel talked to the Prophet Muhammad in cave of Hijra. Thinking this was so is a religious belief. Which I respect. So the difference between you and me is that I don't call your beliefs a lie.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 05 August 2012 at 2:46pm
Assalamu alaika Matt Browne.


Congratulations! Congratulations! Congratulations. You are have become a follower of Muhammad but only that you are yet to have conviction. He told us never to say something bad on what was revealed before him.
Fr
iendship.

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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by iec786

Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by iec786

not one ever disputed his truthfulness.

Hmm, I wonder....this made me think.If no one disputed his truthfulness would not all Jews and Christians in the territory have become followers of Muhammad?


"Ye hypocrites . . ." MATTHEW 23:13
"Ye wicked and adulterous generation . . ." MATTHEW 16:4
"Ye whited sepulchres . . ." MATTHEW 23:27
"Ye generation of vipers . . ." MATTHEW 23:33
Al-Baqarah
(10) In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
(11) When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"
(12) Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
(13) When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
(14) When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

(15) Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).
(16) These are they who have bartered Guidance for error: But their traffic is profitless, and they have lost true direction,
(17) Their similitude is that of a man who kindled a fire; when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in utter darkness. So they could not see.

(18) Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).
This doesn't really answer what I posted.  If all were convinced of Muhammad's truthfulness then all would have followed Muhammad.What it does address however is the fact that we believe the same(Muhammad took from the Christian teaching so it would be the same).  We both believe that man can be blinded to God's truth.  The difference is Jesus did not say to kill those who you believe to be blind.  He did not say to 'kill those who do not believe in Me'.  This is where Muhammad 'changed the Word of God' as was prophesied.You believe Paul changed the Word of God.  I do not see that.  I see that the testimony of many men from the time(not one man) are in agreement, and in agreement with the prophesies from before Jesus.


Caringheart,
I do not know from where you get your knowledge of Islam my friend, but you are wrong again. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not say to kill those who did not believe in him, if that's what you are saying.
And I suppose you see something else in these words of the Bible then how they appear, don't tell me there is love in there!
Matt 10: 34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law —
36     a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

And to further correct you: Prophet Mohammed did not follow what Prophet Jesus (pbut) said. They both followed what Allah said to them.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 06 August 2012 at 12:16pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 1:41pm
Assalamu alaika Caringheart.



Is this actually your quote? :Hmm, I wonder....this made me think.If no one disputed his truthfulness would not all Jews and Christians in the territory have become followers of Muhammad?

Answer. Understand please that in Makka there were no Christians. In Medina the Jews lived in Fadak and 8 klm from the masjid Rasulullah in their expectation that when the messenger comes he will be from them. There were also no Christians. Christians of the Byzantine belief were living in Yemen. They all believed after the conquest of Makka.
The jews could not believe for the Shari'a was consolidated, perfected, simplified as a result of their behavior. without them, revelation and hence Muhammad Rasulullah could be senseless. Personally, I do not believe in accusing them of disbelief.  They played their role and were given place to live in Syria etc. THEY WILL BE FORGIVEN BY ALLAH. Please read that book I recommended for you.

Friendship


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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by honeto



Caringheart,
I do not know from where you get your knowledge of Islam my friend, but you are wrong again. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not say to kill those who did not believe in him, if that's what you are saying.
And I suppose you see something else in these words of the Bible then how they appear, don't tell me there is love in there!
Matt 10: 34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law —
36     a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

And to further correct you: Prophet Mohammed did not follow what Prophet Jesus (pbut) said. They both followed what Allah said to them.

Hasan


Greetings Hasan,

from the Qur'an... I get my information from the Qur'an.  I am reading it.
'slay them [the disbelievers] where ye find them'
is a pretty good paraphrase.
and surah 4:89

regarding the passage from the Bible;
I did once struggle with this passage, but as I have come to know God's Word in its entirety and fullness, as I have drawn closer to Him, understanding has come. 

Jesus was making a simple statement of fact, that those who believe will not get along with those who disbelieve.  The fact of Jesus would cause divisions even amongst ones own families.

Is Ramadan over now?
If so, I hope it was fruitful for you.

Salaam,
Caringheart
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaika Caringheart.

Is this actually your quote? :Hmm, I wonder....this made me think.If no one disputed his truthfulness would not all Jews and Christians in the territory have become followers of Muhammad?

Answer. Understand please that in Makka there were no Christians. In Medina the Jews lived in Fadak and 8 klm from the masjid Rasulullah in their expectation that when the messenger comes he will be from them. There were also no Christians. Christians of the Byzantine belief were living in Yemen. They all believed after the conquest of Makka.
The jews could not believe for the Shari'a was consolidated, perfected, simplified as a result of their behavior. without them, revelation and hence Muhammad Rasulullah could be senseless. Personally, I do not believe in accusing them of disbelief.  They played their role and were given place to live in Syria etc. THEY WILL BE FORGIVEN BY ALLAH. Please read that book I recommended for you.

Friendship



Yes, that was written by me.
Cool
Friendship, I need you, if you could, to remind me of what book?  If I were to try and find your old post to me on this computer it would take me half a day. Confused Could you private message the name of it to me, then it will not be lost.
Thanks.
Heart
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 07 August 2012 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by honeto


Caringheart,
I do not know from where you get your knowledge of Islam my friend, but you are wrong again. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not say to kill those who did not believe in him, if that's what you are saying.
And I suppose you see something else in these words of the Bible then how they appear, don't tell me there is love in there!
Matt 10: 34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

“‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law —
36     a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

And to further correct you: Prophet Mohammed did not follow what Prophet Jesus (pbut) said. They both followed what Allah said to them.

Hasan
Greetings Hasan,from the Qur'an... I get my information from the Qur'an.  I am reading it.'slay them [the disbelievers] where ye find them'is a pretty good paraphrase.and surah 4:89regarding the passage from the Bible;I did once struggle with this passage, but as I have come to know God's Word in its entirety and fullness, as I have drawn closer to Him, understanding has come.  Jesus was making a simple statement of fact, that those who believe will not get along with those who disbelieve.  The fact of Jesus would cause divisions even amongst ones own families.Is Ramadan over now?If so, I hope it was fruitful for you.Salaam,Caringheart


Caringheart,
I hope this is not how you conclude on issues that are important, by reading parts only. This is what the hate group do because they do know that is the only way to find problems, by reading incomplete sentences and drawing their meanings.
I expect of you more than that my friend as I hear from you so far that you want to learn.
I will help you with this as it is my duty to correct when I see a wrong.
The part of the Quranic quote you pasted has to be read complete in order to be benefited.
4:89 (Y. Ali) They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
4:90 (Y. Ali) Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

Thus, reading complete makes things clear I hope :)

Ramadan, Alhumdolillah (Praise God) is going great, it is going so fast, unbelievable, only ten more days. It feels like yesterday that we started the month, and here we are in the last ten days. May God Almighty accept our efforts and forgive the mistakes we make, Ameen.
Peace,
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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