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Interfaith Dialogue
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2011 at 6:37am
Originally posted by IssaEl999

't Shake The Trinity. No Matter How Many Time, Your Or I Try To It Plan It. There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing, In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing. They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank, Quantity. Space, Density, Authority, Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father, Time Make The Difference, The Father Would Have To Had Been First, Before The Son. This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad. No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One. Now If They Can't See This (Their Lost)
I see so you have cooked up an argument about God, the God who made the vastness of the Universes so you have made your tiny mind the measure of all things.

You say God is one, no partners or equals. Well what does that mean - is God one person sitting somewhere in the Universe or outside it and we would recognise him as one thing or is God everywhere in which case we must be one with God and no different from God or something else?

Today perhaps a billion Muslims will say exactly the same prayers and say them several times so does God hear each one individually or does he pick one person out as representative? Ipso facto God cannot be one or listen to so many people all at the same time.



Edited by bunter - 06 April 2011 at 6:37am
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2011 at 6:58am
Originally posted by IssaEl999

The Deceiver Paul Acclaimed Vision Is The Only Evidence The Deceiver Paul Could Produce For His Bid For The Leadership Of The New Church The Deceiver Would Raise.

I see nowhere in the NT Paul making a bid for leadership but what I do see is a man who was on the move more or less all his life testifying to the Gospel.

In the book of Acts we have not one, not two, but three accounts of Saul's conversion. Here's a sample from the major focus points:

Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

A simple solution in this regard says either that:

In the second verse, the word means "understood," not "heard." or, In the first verse, the word "voice" should be translated "sound." However, there are obvious and simple solutions that have nothing to do with language.

The trouble with you is that you start out with what you want to prove and never bother to look at alternative. I will bet ANY amount of money that if I suggested a Qu'ran contradiction, and there are hundreds of them, you would do the opposite, you are not an honest broker are you?
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2011 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by honeto

You wrote: " The point is that Jesus is both man and God." Where did that come from and how is that different from similar claims by other religions that you probably do not accept, the Hindu concept in particular where God is told to have come down in various forms, both as man and animal. Also it does raise another valid question. Why during the period covering the OT prophets God is never mentioned to have come down in form of one of His own creation? Nowhere in the OT I find where awaited Massiah was told to be God himself.

This is a fair but difficult question and no Christian will say other that God is one. But in the NT we frequently read that Jesus claims to be one with God. For example we read in John 10:28-32 NIV "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” Thus Jesus here claims to be God and who but God can redeem us?

Now a common objection to the idea that God is one in three and three in one is that it cannot be understood and of course I agree with that but at the same time I do not make my own mind the measure of all things and I accept in faith the triune God.

To see what I mean here about setting limits with our puny minds I might ask you what does it mean if God is one, without equals etc. Does it mean he sits in a chair somewhere and I can identify him as one person or is he everywhere or what? If he is one person in the sense that we might understand it how can he listen to a billion prayers and in the case of Islam listen to a billion people all saying the same prayers and saying it several time over. If God is everywhere its then hard to see he is one?
Bunter,
It is much clear than you try to blurr it. And let me explain, you mentioned there being some quotes pointing that he (Jesus) was God. A clear claim means that if he had said somewhere as " I am your God worship me" that will make a claim, not yet true or false. In my knowledge of the Bible, Jesus has nowhere made a clear claim like "I am God" like God did claim in OT or in the Quran. And: 1) it would be so pittyful not to make such a claim when someone comes in person but forget to make that claim clearly or to declare who he was. 2)we clearly see however that he prayed and cried to someone else, God almighty for help. 3) declared that "I am returning to my God and yoru God" which more clearly indicate that his God and your and my God is One and same.  Note if he says he has a God, what does that mean? Duh! I think that eliminates all other confusions for those who really want the truth.
Hasan 
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2011 at 11:40am
Originally posted by honeto

Bunter, It is much clear than you try to blurr it. And let me explain, you mentioned there being some quotes pointing that he (Jesus) was God. A clear claim means that if he had said somewhere as " I am your God worship me" that will make a claim, not yet true or false. In my knowledge of the Bible, Jesus has nowhere made a clear claim like "I am God" like God did claim in OT or in the Quran. And: 1) it would be so pittyful not to make such a claim when someone comes in person but forget to make that claim clearly or to declare who he was.... Note if he says he has a God, what does that mean? Duh! I think that eliminates all other confusions for those who really want the truth.
I take it that 'Duh' means I am something of a fool and your superior intellect lets you dispose of the divinity of Jesus in a few lines (or did you copy it). Have you never heard the aphorism "true wisdom is the knowledge of your own limitations." Frankly, I don't think you are interested in truth, but rather one of those persons who absurdly think that denigrating the faith of someone else enhances their own and satisfies their ego. Let me explain:

Firstly
Jesus’ claim about Himself
John 8:58-59: "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”

This is a powerful double claim from Jesus: first, that He pre-existed His human birth and was actually alive and present (as God) before Abraham; second, that His title was “I am” -- which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14. His listeners again got the point, and picked up stones to execute Him!

Secondly
Let me quote an authentic Hadith

The Prophet said, “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it [in the drink], for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease” [Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537].)

Do you accept this as true? I don't and I don't need hadith science to tell me or indeed any science as the idea is obviously totally absurd



Edited by bunter - 07 April 2011 at 11:41am
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Quote IssaEl999 Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2011 at 5:11am
Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by honeto

Bunter, It is much clear than you try to blurr it. And let me explain, you mentioned there being some quotes pointing that he (Jesus) was God. A clear claim means that if he had said somewhere as " I am your God worship me" that will make a claim, not yet true or false. In my knowledge of the Bible, Jesus has nowhere made a clear claim like "I am God" like God did claim in OT or in the Quran. And: 1) it would be so pittyful not to make such a claim when someone comes in person but forget to make that claim clearly or to declare who he was.... Note if he says he has a God, what does that mean? Duh! I think that eliminates all other confusions for those who really want the truth.
I take it that 'Duh' means I am something of a fool and your superior intellect lets you dispose of the divinity of Jesus in a few lines (or did you copy it). Have you never heard the aphorism "true wisdom is the knowledge of your own limitations." Frankly, I don't think you are interested in truth, but rather one of those persons who absurdly think that denigrating the faith of someone else enhances their own and satisfies their ego. Let me explain:

Firstly
Jesus’ claim about Himself
John 8:58-59: "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”

This is a powerful double claim from Jesus: first, that He pre-existed His human birth and was actually alive and present (as God) before Abraham; second, that His title was “I am” -- which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14. His listeners again got the point, and picked up stones to execute Him!

Secondly
Let me quote an authentic Hadith

The Prophet said, “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it [in the drink], for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease” [Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537].)

Do you accept this as true? I don't and I don't need hadith science to tell me or indeed any science as the idea is obviously totally absurd

 
 
LOLLOLLOLYashu'a , Isa , Jesus Never Claim To Be God / Creator . It's People Like Yourself , Who Make / Add Things To Verse That Are Not There .
 
( 1 ) . John 14 ; 2 >> In My Father House Are Many Mansions .>>> Jesus Said In My Father's House , He [ Didsn't Say In My House ] Would It Have Made Sense To Say In My House [ If He Was God ? ]

( 2 ) . Luke 2; 49 >> That I Must Be About My Father's Business '>> If Jesus Was God Why Did He Say I Must Be Of My Fathers Business , He Indicated . [ The Distinction Between Him And His Father .
 
If This Is  True As John 3; 16 Says , Then Jesus Had Nothing To Do With It It Was That Father That Sent Him . In Matthew 6 ; 9 As Jesus Say '' Our Father Who Art In Heaven '' Because Jesus Say In John 13 ; 16 '' I Am Not Greater Than He Who Sent Me '' And In John 5; 30 He Says Again That '' I On My Own Accord Can Do Nothing '' Call No Man Father , Because There Is One Father Who Art In Heaven And Jesus Says Clearly In Matthew 23; 9 '' And Call No Man Your Father Upon The Earth .
 
Christian Also Says Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus , Is The Way To His Father ( Yes ) If Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus  Is The Way To His Father . My Question Is Where Is He Takeing The Christian To . If He Himself Is God . bunter Cut The Games Ok Trick Are For Kids .
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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Quote IssaEl999 Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2011 at 5:26am
Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by IssaEl999

't Shake The Trinity. No Matter How Many Time, Your Or I Try To It Plan It. There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing, In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing. They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank, Quantity. Space, Density, Authority, Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father, Time Make The Difference, The Father Would Have To Had Been First, Before The Son. This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad. No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One. Now If They Can't See This (Their Lost)
I see so you have cooked up an argument about God, the God who made the vastness of the Universes so you have made your tiny mind the measure of all things.

You say God is one, no partners or equals. Well what does that mean - is God one person sitting somewhere in the Universe or outside it and we would recognise him as one thing or is God everywhere in which case we must be one with God and no different from God or something else?

Today perhaps a billion Muslims will say exactly the same prayers and say them several times so does God hear each one individually or does he pick one person out as representative? Ipso facto God cannot be one or listen to so many people all at the same time.

 
 
Don't Let My Name Fool You , I'm Not Muslims . You Speak Of Prayers '' Yes '' My Overstanding 90% Christian Don't Pray Until Sunday . And Most Christian Believe God Rested On The Seventh Day Which Is Sunday According To Them '' Right '' So The Christian God Is A Sleep / Resting On The Day Christian  Are Praying To Him . Thing That Make You Go Hummmmm . You Keep Trying To Prove To People How Smart You're When In Fact  Your Missing The Point Like The One Above .
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2011 at 9:41am
Originally posted by IssaEl999

Don't Let My Name Fool You , I'm Not Muslims . You Speak Of Prayers '' Yes '' My Overstanding 90% Christian Don't Pray Until Sunday . And Most Christian Believe God Rested On The Seventh Day Which Is Sunday According To Them '' Right '' So The Christian God Is A Sleep / Resting On The Day Christian  Are Praying To Him . Thing That Make You Go Hummmmm . You Keep Trying To Prove To People How Smart You're When In Fact  Your Missing The Point Like The One Above.

Your name fools no one and my question can be attempted by anyone. The trouble with people like you who think their smart is that they end up deluding themselves. Do you suppose that every text ever written must be taken entirely literally? If yes then you are bigger fool that I first thought and if not please explain how you distinguish the literal from other forms of text?

I am not expecting any answer as so nowhere can I find an answer from you to any question any one has asked.

Edited by bunter - 11 April 2011 at 9:42am
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Quote IssaEl999 Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2011 at 12:30am
Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by IssaEl999

Don't Let My Name Fool You , I'm Not Muslims . You Speak Of Prayers '' Yes '' My Overstanding 90% Christian Don't Pray Until Sunday . And Most Christian Believe God Rested On The Seventh Day Which Is Sunday According To Them '' Right '' So The Christian God Is A Sleep / Resting On The Day Christian  Are Praying To Him . Thing That Make You Go Hummmmm . You Keep Trying To Prove To People How Smart You're When In Fact  Your Missing The Point Like The One Above.

Your name fools no one and my question can be attempted by anyone. The trouble with people like you who think their smart is that they end up deluding themselves. Do you suppose that every text ever written must be taken entirely literally? If yes then you are bigger fool that I first thought and if not please explain how you distinguish the literal from other forms of text?

I am not expecting any answer as so nowhere can I find an answer from you to any question any one has asked.
 
 bunter <> Overstand One Who Sits , Talks And Eats At The Same Table With With A ( Fool ) Becomes Himself / Herself Fattened And Filled With The Appearance Of A Fool , And Speaks In The Same Tongue As A Fool , And The Name Of The Fool Is '' bunter '
 
 
LOOLOLOLOLOLOL Your Truely Full Of Yourself . Now To Answer Your Question , Yes One Should Take The Scriptures  ( Literally ) . Meaning Those Who Accept Them As The True Words Of Their Creator . One Must Also Have An Overstanding Of The Language Their Scriptures Were Written In . For How Can You Get The True Meaning / Overstanding In Another Language Your Scriptures Wasn't Written In Duhhh ? If You Took Time To Learn The Language / Research / Study The History / Cultures / Way Of Life /  That You Believe & Accept / You Claim You Know About . You Wouldn't  Have To Use Your Small Minded Insult To Flip / Change The Subject At Hand , Nor Would You Have To Make Up Your Own Rules / Lies Etc . Oh By The  Way The Diffrent Between You And I  , I Don't  Post Garbage And Expect People To Believe / Accept Anything I Post . One Thing I KNOW . Those Who Take The Time And Reserch Whatever I Post Will See  I'm Right . Your Looking  For A Pat On The Head Son , I'm Not .
 
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So . Overstand


Edited by IssaEl999 - 12 April 2011 at 12:38am
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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