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Prophets - Jesus
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IssaEl999
 
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bullet Posted: 14 March 2011 at 8:24am
Originally posted by seekshidayath

Hello IssaE999

A day before, was posting for you about muslims reading bible, for about half an hour. But then there was something wrong with my UPS and b.cos of power failure all that i typed was lost. I had to say, "Inna lillahi wainna ilaihi rajioon". Anyways, to write back again

I thought you shall present 10:94 part of the Qur'an, which of the christians missionaries present as proof that muslims are permitted to study Bible and Torah. Anyways, Islam does n't permit us to study those revealed Books and to believe in it. There are many ayaat in Qur'an which state that those Books were distorted and altered. We muslims are to follow the Final Book {word of Allah i.e Qur'an} FOR GUIDANCE. Am sorry that i cud not share the reference to you from Qur'an right now, but if you wish, surely shall share it to you}

On the whole we muslims are not allowed to study or refer these Books {Torah and Injeel} for the purpose of guidance. But few scholars allow to refer these books for dawah purposes. That is, the easiest way to prove a point to a person who believes in the Bible is to make reference to the Bible.

 
 
As Salaaamu Alaykum -seekshidayath
 
With All Do Respect The Qur'aan Is The Words Of Allah Most Glorified And Exalted And Not  Socalled Christians Missionaries / Theologian / Religion Scholar Etc Etc .
 
 
Muslims ignore the fact that throughtout the Qur'aan , it keeps referring back to the previous Scriptures . It makes reference to As Suhuf ( the Pure Page ) [ Al Qur'aan 80 ; 13 , 98 ; 21 ] , Al Hikmah ( the Wisdom ) [ Al Qur'aan 3 ; 48 ] , At Tawraah ( the Torah ) [ Al Qur'aan 3 ; 3 , 48 , 5 ; 46 , 68 ] , Al Injil ( the Evangel , Revealation ) [ Al Qur'aan 3 ; 38 , 48 , 5 ; 46 , 47 , 68 ; 57 ; 27 ] . and the Books or Scriptures sent to the Prophets .
 
 
1 . The Suhuf - Arabic - [ 100 ] The Pages ) ..
a . 10 page called '' The Book of Life - Arabic - Kitaabul Hayaah ) , received by the Prophet Adam ( 4026 - 3096 B.C.E. ) in East of Eden in the year 3126 B.C.E.

b . 50 pages called The Book of Sin - Arabic , Kitaabul Ithm ) , received by the Prophet / Apostle Seth ( 3896 - 2984 B.C.E. ) in East of Eden ( Mecca ) in the year 3776 B.C.E.

c . 30 pages called The Book of Time - Arabic - Kitaabul Saa'ah ) received by the Prophet / Apostle Enoch ( 3404 - 3039 B.C.E. ) in East of Eden ( Mecca ) in the year ( 3284 B,C.E. )

d . 10 pages called The Book of Generation - Arabic - Kitaabul Milaad ) , received by the Prophet / Apostle Abraham ( 2078 - 1903 B.C.E. ) in the land of Canaan in the year 1958 B.C.E.

2 . Al Hikmah - Arabic - The Wisdom
19 books received by the Prophet Luqmaan [ Leummim ] ( 1791 - 1671 B.C.E. ) in the Sinai Desert , in the year 1671 B.C.E.

3 . At Tawraah - Arabic - The Torah ) also called the Pentateuch ] 5 book received by the Prophet / Apostle Moses ( 1593 - 1473 B.C.E. ) and his brother , the Prophet Aaron ( 1596 - 1473 B.C.E. between the years ( 1512 - 1473 B.C.E. )

El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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bullet Posted: 14 March 2011 at 4:02pm
Walaikum as-salaam.

Originally posted by IssaEl999

Allah has repeatedly told us in His words that He does not lie . Therefore , we can trust Him . Allah and His words are one . Would a true believer dare to question the truthfulness and faithfulness of Allah ? Everytime the words Allahu Akbar ( Allah ) is Most Magnifcent ) are repeated , we affirm that Allah is not only greater than men , but that He is also different from men Human beings lie ; Allah never lies . He never has and He never will . Allah has communicated with man since the time before the Prophet Adam was cast out of the Garden . He has revealed His will and His purpose through the Prophet and the Scriptures . To the Prophet / Apostle Moses , He gave the Torah - At Tawraah );

Al Qur'aan ( The Koran ) 114 Books Of Ahmad ( The Prophet / Apostle Muhammad 5 ; 44 In Part Revealed 625 - 629 A.D.
'' Surely we ( Allah And His Angelic Beings ) sent down The Toran in which is true guidance and light .

Al Qur'aan ( The Koran ) 114 Books Of Ahmad ( The Prophet / Apostle Muhammad 6 ; 154 In Part Revealed 621 A.D.
'' Then we ( Allah And His Angelic Beings ) gave Moses the Scripture ( Torah ) A complete law upon him who does what's Best and it ( The Torah ) . is detailing everything ( Given Us All The Laws ) .

Al Qur'aan ( The Koran ) 114 Books Of Ahmad ( The Prophet / Apostle Muhammad 11 ; 17 Revealed 622 A.D.
Is he ( Those Who Conceal What They Know To Be The Truth ) To be cassified as am equal with him who has clear proof from his Sustainer ( Allah ) And a witness from it ( Al Qur'aan ) Recites it and from before it ( Al Qur'aan ) Was a Scriptures of Moses ( The Torah ) As an example and a yielding mercy ( That We Are To Use The Torah As An Example ) These are they who have faith by way of it ( The Torah ) And As To Him Who Conceals What He Know To Be True from the clan so they are promised an appointment with the fire . So Muhammad don't you have any doubt about ( The Scriptures ) For surely it ( Al Qur'aan ) Is A Fact Beyond Any Doubt and from your ( Muhammad ) Sustainer , But most of the people don't have true faith . .

The Prophet / Apostle Moses received 613 commandments , not 10 , as it is taught , If you do not believe me , you can refer to the book of '' Jewish Knowldge '' , it says that the 613 Commandments , and Ordinances were of the Rabbinic Sages . These ordinances contained the laws of sanctity and the Ceremony of the Priesthood . The Prophet / Apostle Moses also recorded the terms of the covenants made with the Prophet before him , such as the Prophet Adam , The Prophet / Apostle Noah , The Prophet / Apostle Moses Abraham , The Prophet / Apostle Ishmael , The Prophet / Apostle Isaac , and Jacob . He recorded the spiritual meaning of the Covenant Allah made eith Israel ( twelve tribes ) . The Prophet / Apostle Ishmael ( 1992 - 1855 B.C.E. ) Received the covenant of '' The '' Flesh '' Circumsion / The Prophet / Apostle Issa ( 1978 - 1798 B.C.E. ) Received the The Covenant Of The Promise '' Prophethood . Jacob ( Israel ) In The Book Of Genesis , Jacob Spoke Of A Prophet Who Would Rise Up From The Midst Of His Brethren And Who Would Be Like The Prophet / Apostle Moses .
 
 
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None of this proves that we are supposed to read the Bible alongside the Quran.  As I said, the Quran came to confirm the truth of the previous revelations but to also refute the falsehoods that had been added to them.  There are many instances where the Bible flat-out contradicts the Quran.  The Quran is the Criterion by which we judge everything, including the Bible.  If something in the Bible agrees with the Quran, then we can accept it.  But if something contradicts it, we reject it.  Those things in the Bible which the Quran does not comment on, we should remain neutral on.  But what is clear is that there is no reason for us to read the Bible for guidance.  Why would Allah have sent the Quran in the first place if the Bible was sufficient?  You need to ponder on this question before jumping to conclusions.  The Quran and Sunnah are our sources, not the Bible.  To contradict that is to reject the message of Islam.

As Salaaamu Alaykum - Islamispeace
 
According To The Above Post Allah Most Ghorified And Exalted Says You Should , According To Bukhari (64 ) Narrated Muhammad Had Sex With Aisha Bint Abu Bakr , So What Your Point With Lot . My Question Was About Muslims Reading The Bible Not Who Had Sex With Who .


How does this compare to Lot having sex with his daughters?  I pointed to this to illustrate an example of how the Bible contradicts the Quran.  The Quran denies that prophets would commit such lewd and abhorrent acts.  This is a reason why we do not rely on the Bible.  We rely on the Quran. 

You also ignored the first part of my response.  Why would Allah (swt) want us to read the Bible if it makes the claim that He is a trinity, something He Himself denies in the Quran?

"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them." (5:73)

If you want to get the whole message of the Quran, you need to stop quoting random verses out of context and consider the whole message.  When you do that, you will realize that there is no command from Allah (swt) to read the Bible. 

Another Question For You If I May .  Islamispeace . Why Do Muslims Call  Allahu Subhaanahu Wa Ta ' Ala  ( God )?


The phrase "Subhaanahu Wa Ta ' Ala" means "May He be Glorified and Exalted".  By saying this, we praise our Lord and Creator, may He be Glorified and Exalted.
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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bullet Posted: 14 March 2011 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Walaikum as-salaam.

Originally posted by IssaEl999

Allah has repeatedly told us in His words that He does not lie . Therefore , we can trust Him . Allah and His words are one . Would a true believer dare to question the truthfulness and faithfulness of Allah ? Everytime the words Allahu Akbar ( Allah ) is Most Magnifcent ) are repeated , we affirm that Allah is not only greater than men , but that He is also different from men Human beings lie ; Allah never lies . He never has and He never will . Allah has communicated with man since the time before the Prophet Adam was cast out of the Garden . He has revealed His will and His purpose through the Prophet and the Scriptures . To the Prophet / Apostle Moses , He gave the Torah - At Tawraah );

Al Qur'aan ( The Koran ) 114 Books Of Ahmad ( The Prophet / Apostle Muhammad 5 ; 44 In Part Revealed 625 - 629 A.D.
'' Surely we ( Allah And His Angelic Beings ) sent down The Toran in which is true guidance and light .

Al Qur'aan ( The Koran ) 114 Books Of Ahmad ( The Prophet / Apostle Muhammad 6 ; 154 In Part Revealed 621 A.D.
'' Then we ( Allah And His Angelic Beings ) gave Moses the Scripture ( Torah ) A complete law upon him who does what's Best and it ( The Torah ) . is detailing everything ( Given Us All The Laws ) .

Al Qur'aan ( The Koran ) 114 Books Of Ahmad ( The Prophet / Apostle Muhammad 11 ; 17 Revealed 622 A.D.
Is he ( Those Who Conceal What They Know To Be The Truth ) To be cassified as am equal with him who has clear proof from his Sustainer ( Allah ) And a witness from it ( Al Qur'aan ) Recites it and from before it ( Al Qur'aan ) Was a Scriptures of Moses ( The Torah ) As an example and a yielding mercy ( That We Are To Use The Torah As An Example ) These are they who have faith by way of it ( The Torah ) And As To Him Who Conceals What He Know To Be True from the clan so they are promised an appointment with the fire . So Muhammad don't you have any doubt about ( The Scriptures ) For surely it ( Al Qur'aan ) Is A Fact Beyond Any Doubt and from your ( Muhammad ) Sustainer , But most of the people don't have true faith . .

The Prophet / Apostle Moses received 613 commandments , not 10 , as it is taught , If you do not believe me , you can refer to the book of '' Jewish Knowldge '' , it says that the 613 Commandments , and Ordinances were of the Rabbinic Sages . These ordinances contained the laws of sanctity and the Ceremony of the Priesthood . The Prophet / Apostle Moses also recorded the terms of the covenants made with the Prophet before him , such as the Prophet Adam , The Prophet / Apostle Noah , The Prophet / Apostle Moses Abraham , The Prophet / Apostle Ishmael , The Prophet / Apostle Isaac , and Jacob . He recorded the spiritual meaning of the Covenant Allah made eith Israel ( twelve tribes ) . The Prophet / Apostle Ishmael ( 1992 - 1855 B.C.E. ) Received the covenant of '' The '' Flesh '' Circumsion / The Prophet / Apostle Issa ( 1978 - 1798 B.C.E. ) Received the The Covenant Of The Promise '' Prophethood . Jacob ( Israel ) In The Book Of Genesis , Jacob Spoke Of A Prophet Who Would Rise Up From The Midst Of His Brethren And Who Would Be Like The Prophet / Apostle Moses .
 
 
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None of this proves that we are supposed to read the Bible alongside the Quran.  As I said, the Quran came to confirm the truth of the previous revelations but to also refute the falsehoods that had been added to them.  There are many instances where the Bible flat-out contradicts the Quran.  The Quran is the Criterion by which we judge everything, including the Bible.  If something in the Bible agrees with the Quran, then we can accept it.  But if something contradicts it, we reject it.  Those things in the Bible which the Quran does not comment on, we should remain neutral on.  But what is clear is that there is no reason for us to read the Bible for guidance.  Why would Allah have sent the Quran in the first place if the Bible was sufficient?  You need to ponder on this question before jumping to conclusions.  The Quran and Sunnah are our sources, not the Bible.  To contradict that is to reject the message of Islam.

As Salaaamu Alaykum - Islamispeace
 
According To The Above Post Allah Most Ghorified And Exalted Says You Should , According To Bukhari (64 ) Narrated Muhammad Had Sex With Aisha Bint Abu Bakr , So What Your Point With Lot . My Question Was About Muslims Reading The Bible Not Who Had Sex With Who .


How does this compare to Lot having sex with his daughters?  I pointed to this to illustrate an example of how the Bible contradicts the Quran.  The Quran denies that prophets would commit such lewd and abhorrent acts.  This is a reason why we do not rely on the Bible.  We rely on the Quran. 

You also ignored the first part of my response.  Why would Allah (swt) want us to read the Bible if it makes the claim that He is a trinity, something He Himself denies in the Quran?

"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them." (5:73)

If you want to get the whole message of the Quran, you need to stop quoting random verses out of context and consider the whole message.  When you do that, you will realize that there is no command from Allah (swt) to read the Bible. 

Another Question For You If I May .  Islamispeace . Why Do Muslims Call  Allahu Subhaanahu Wa Ta ' Ala  ( God )?


The phrase "Subhaanahu Wa Ta ' Ala" means "May He be Glorified and Exalted".  By saying this, we praise our Lord and Creator, may He be Glorified and Exalted.
 
 
 
As Salaaamu Alaykum Islamispeace
 
The Post Above This One Is Conformation That Muslims Are To  Read The Scriptures Before The Qur'aan  By You Trying To Change My Question Useing Lot / Trinty Doesn't Change Anything .  Your First Mistake Is Assumeing I Accept The Trinity / Or Who Sleep With Who , You Still Haven't Answer The Question; Why Do Muslims Call  Allahu Subhaanahu Wa Ta ' Ala  ( God )?
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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bullet Posted: 17 March 2011 at 1:05pm
As Salaaamu Alaykum Islamispeace
 
The Post Above This One Is Conformation That Muslims Are To  Read The Scriptures Before The Qur'aan  By You Trying To Change My Question Useing Lot / Trinty Doesn't Change Anything .  Your First Mistake Is Assumeing I Accept The Trinity / Or Who Sleep With Who , You Still Haven't Answer The Question; Why Do Muslims Call  Allahu Subhaanahu Wa Ta ' Ala  ( God )?


Walaikum as-salaam.  I never said that you accept the trinity or other beliefs.  I was pointing out that these beliefs are present in the Bible.  Since they are refuted by the Quran, there is no logical reason for Muslims to read the Bible as scripture.  As I said, the Quran came to confirm the original message of the previous scriptures, and to refute the falsehood that had been added to it (whether simply in terms of interpretation or actual physical additions). 

I also answered your question about why we say "May He be Glorified and  Exalted".  This phrase serves to glorify and praise our Lord and Creator.  It is just like God "Almighty" or some other phrase of praise. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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bullet Posted: 17 March 2011 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

As Salaaamu Alaykum Islamispeace
 
The Post Above This One Is Conformation That Muslims Are To  Read The Scriptures Before The Qur'aan  By You Trying To Change My Question Useing Lot / Trinty Doesn't Change Anything .  Your First Mistake Is Assumeing I Accept The Trinity / Or Who Sleep With Who , You Still Haven't Answer The Question; Why Do Muslims Call  Allahu Subhaanahu Wa Ta ' Ala  ( God )?


Walaikum as-salaam.  I never said that you accept the trinity or other beliefs.  I was pointing out that these beliefs are present in the Bible.  Since they are refuted by the Quran, there is no logical reason for Muslims to read the Bible as scripture.  As I said, the Quran came to confirm the original message of the previous scriptures, and to refute the falsehood that had been added to it (whether simply in terms of interpretation or actual physical additions). 

I also answered your question about why we say "May He be Glorified and  Exalted".  This phrase serves to glorify and praise our Lord and Creator.  It is just like God "Almighty" or some other phrase of praise. 
 
 
The word '' God '' among '' English '' - speaking people is considered to be the name for the '' Supreme Being '' in the Universe , yet according to the English dictionary , ( Webster ) a '' Being '' is '' Any Living Thing Or Person '' . Allah is definitely more than just a '' Thing '' . Allah can neither be a '' Supreme  Person , '' for a person is identified by a physcial body . Those who believe that the Creator took shape in a body must also believe  that Scientists , mere men , have complete Knowledge of the Nature of the Universe and the answer to the final WHY ( WHY /  is why w, why ) .
 
This is plain stupodity . This is to say that since the Scientist , through Research and Experimentation , has learn the Human Body as far as knowing the number of Bones and Cells and Heartbeats Per Minute and the Composition of the Brain , Etc , One would say that things which seem wonderous and Unexplainable are now brought down to a level of Explanation . Therefore one would be inclinded to assume that they ( Scientists ) have complete Knowledge of these things , more so than any other Individual . Yet , that Scientists ( Man ) has Blood . If exposed to the degree of Heat , His Blood  would Boil and therefore immobillize his Body .
 
 If exposed to Extreme Pain , It may become too Unbearable for his Sense and the Body may become Dead to all Sensation - whether it is a state of Shock or Death . Not only are These things evidence of the Impossiblity of the Creator being a '' Person ''  but a person could be Stabbed or Shot , or Run Over , in short , a person could be Wounded or Killed . So , you see , No Man  has the final answer , and the idea of the Creator of All having a Flesh and Bone Body is perfectly ridiculous ; how can he have Created the Extreme Heat or the Sun without it destroying Him in the procees ? Think About That . The Belief that Allah , Or the Creator Of All Life , can do anything is also incorrect .
 
There is one thing that the Creator Cannot Do ; That may Sound Very Strange , But That One Thing Is ; The Ability To Regress .Allah Cannot Become Less Than Himself . Otherwise He Would No Longer Be Allah .  Man is the image and the likeness of Allah without the Divine Qualities . If anything was taken out of the all , It would no longer be the all . something ( that which was removed ) would be missing . Let us take a look at word , e.g Pear . Changr the small p . to a capital P . This does not change the meaning of the word , or give it any Divine Qualities , or make it an object of Worship .... the same goes for the word '' god '' The word '' god '' with a lower case '' g '' is the exact same word with a upper case '' G''  A '' G '' is still a '' g '' and a God is still a god , which is still Polytheism . If you believe that your Creator is All Powerful , and nothing can be compared to Him , why do you insist upon calling Him by a name that could be applied to anything ; Man and / or Woman and / or Animal and / or object ?
 
It is obvious that most '' Moslems / Muslims or whatever titles they use to call themselves , have accept the Fallacy that '' God is the English '' Equivalent '' of Allah . There Is No Such Thing As An Equivalent To Allah !! Take A Good Look At Your Qur'an .
 
Holy Qur'an 112 ; 1 - 4 , And I Quote ; Muhammad Tell Them The Meccans Allah Is The Source ,  < Ahad > Who Is Alone . The Source , Allah Needs Nothing , Foe He Is < Al Samad > Has No Deficiencies  . ( Neither Mother Nor Father Has He , And ) He Was Not Conceived ( By A Sexual Intercourse Of Any Two Mortal Beings ) ; Nor Did He Conceive ( An Individual Mortal < Walad > Son ) . And No One Is < Kufuwaan > Equal To Him .
 
Furthermore , we know this to be a Fallacy because of the fact that Allah , the name of the '' One Who Gives Us Life '' , is the same in all Languages . This word cannot , and need not , be Translated . '' The Breath Of Life '' is the same in any Languages , Our very Breath tells us whom we should give thanks to , simply because with every Breath we involuntarilly say '' Allah '' the name of '' He Who Gives Life .
 
Holy Quran 2 ; 163 , And I Quote ; And  Ilaahukum ( Your El / Allah ) Source , Is < Waahidun > One Ilaahun ( Allah / El ) Source . No Ilaaha (  El / Allah )  Source ' Would Exist If He ( Hu -The Creative Force Of Will ) , Didn't Creat Him ; Huwa Is < Al Rahmaan > The Yielder , < Al Rahiym > The Merciful .
 
 
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Edited by IssaEl999 - 17 March 2011 at 1:39pm
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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bullet Posted: 17 March 2011 at 4:07pm
You are now getting into petty semantics.  There is no difference if you use the English word or the Arabic.  Of course, it is preferred to say Allah, but one does not need to be so obsessive in the matter.  Allah (swt) does not concern Himself with such meaningless semantics and He certainly does not want us to waste our time on such matters.   

By the way, what faith do you follow?  Are you a Deist?


Edited by islamispeace - 17 March 2011 at 4:07pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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bullet Posted: 17 March 2011 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

You are now getting into petty semantics.  There is no difference if you use the English word or the Arabic.  Of course, it is preferred to say Allah, but one does not need to be so obsessive in the matter.  Allah (swt) does not concern Himself with such meaningless semantics and He certainly does not want us to waste our time on such matters.   

By the way, what faith do you follow?  Are you a Deist?
 
As Salaaamu Alaykum Islamispeace
 I Have Been Reading Some Of Your ( Post's ) I Knew You Would Come Up With Some Type Of Exuse , And Now You Want To Speak For Allah , You Should Do More Research  And Less Complaning ..
 
 LOL To Answer You Question , Faith Is One Thing Knowing Is  Another , You May Have Faith In Your Cart , But Not Know The Wheel Is Loose ''
 
Read Below


Edited by IssaEl999 - 17 March 2011 at 4:41pm
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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bullet Posted: 17 March 2011 at 4:45pm
Ques; What The Meaning Of The Word '' Allah '' And Where Did It Come From ? islamispeace

El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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