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bullet Posted: 30 March 2005 at 3:21am

 

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bullet Posted: 30 March 2005 at 3:40am

   Post removed by Moderator

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ummziba
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bullet Posted: 30 March 2005 at 5:12am

ameena99999,

You can post this until the world ends, it won't change the fact that you are not describing circumcision at all, but rather mutilation.  Mutilation of the body is a sin against Allah and a worse sin when you force it upon an innocent child.

Get the facts right.

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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bullet Posted: 30 March 2005 at 5:48am
Originally posted by ummziba

ameena99999,

You can post this until the world ends, it won't change the fact that you are not describing circumcision at all, but rather mutilation.  Mutilation of the body is a sin against Allah and a worse sin when you force it upon an innocent child.

Get the facts right.

Peace, ummziba.

Isn't male circumcision a mutilation of the body also therefore a sin against Allah ?

I think ameena was speaking that is should be a choice not being forced upon.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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ummziba
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bullet Posted: 30 March 2005 at 6:47am

Angel,

I don't believe female or male circumcision is a mutilation - DONE CORRECTLY. Circumcision is the removal of part of the foreskin in males and part of the hood of the clitoris in females. 

What ameena99999 is describing is not circumcision, it is mutilation, therefore, it is wrong of her to advocate this type of thing as circumcision and especially wrong to encourage it to be done against innocent children.

To CHOOSE to have yourself or your child mutilated is plain wrong.  Advocating for others to do it is horrendous!

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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bullet Posted: 30 March 2005 at 8:38am

Hi ameena, you sure have brought an interesting post on the subject  but the claim for female circumcision is not backed up any islamic evidence all you brought across is that under islam it should be done under medical conditions and personnel, well I should hope so even without islam.

If it is as you say, then I think if anybody is going to have circumcisions, (not that I agree with it) then it should be a personal choice with counselling just like any plastic surgery and it should in no way be forced upon, not for religion, nor because others are having it done.

And for me to have this done for the purpose to suppress sexual arousal - unwanted, is against the natural body, its a crime against the human body - the female body! We are made the way we are because God made us the way we are. To be free of sexual arousal is going against the natural order of things I believe and there is a connection of the mind, why do you think people fantasize when together or alone if mastrabating (spellings wrong) to enhance the arousal, why do you think sex therapist give out videos to help couples, there is the mind connection things here to. If you want to control your sexual arousal or suppress it, then learn to control your mind, it can be done.

Ameena, I don't know how long ago you had your circumcision done or if you had sex before it, and you being a nurse should know this, so I don't know how you can say that the West is wrong about the mind.

Anyway, you are obviously happy about having the female circumcision done and it works for you, Good then I'm happy for you. It would be interesting to hear how and why you come to have it done, and what you went through, not so much about the procedure but psychologically. I know this is a personal issue so you don't have to talk about it.  

Ameena:

but it is deliberately supressed by the West - whether
you want to call it cultural imperialism, political correctness or just plain old bigotry against those of different beliefs or religion is up to you.
 
I somehow don't think its entirely all bigotry against those of different beliefs or religion, and besides if it is deliberately suppressed by the West, then I can see why, my god we are talking about what makes up the female body, this isn't some scrapping away of the skin on the male penis, we are talking about taking away a part of or full section of the woman's body, it is our reproductive and sexual organ And it is what makes a lot of women feel like a woman, to some it is like having their breast removed because of breast cancer and that it makes them feel unwomanly. You don't see or hear woman having their breast removed other than what I just mentioned above.
 
In the past female circumcision was considered
optional, but many (both ordinary people and religious scholars) now think that it should be mandatory because of the West's anti-Islamic predjudice.
 
Now that would be a mistake! A really bad move!
You don't do that because of someone's anti islamic predjudice whether its from the west or not!
You leave it as optional, a choice but in no way should it be mandatory because of some anti whatever!!
 
With external genital tissue already removed, there was far less need for episiotomies.
 
I don't know what you know here but episiotomies has nothing to do with the external gential tissue, you being a nurse should know this, its got to do with the prenuim (sp?) the stretch of skin from the point of the vagina to the anus, that can be solved by putting lotion to soften the skin to prevent tearing. The only reason why the tearing happens and the episiotomies are performed to control bad tearing.
 
Caesarain births were reduced. Labour is generally shorter and easier in circumcised women and healing of the birth canal and the surrounding region much easier.
 
This maybe true but its not hardly a fact to use or push for having circumicisions, there many uncircumicided women who experience such things. And I might point out that using caesarin statistics nowdays is useless because many women are opting out of vaginal births thru choice.
 
 
Intercourse is far more pleasurable because the whole of the sexual act is made spiritual in nature and focuses entirely on intercourse with your husband.
 
I somehow don't agree with this and feel uncomfortable with it, whether you have circumcision done or not, intercourse with your husband should be made spiritual in nature. You are claiming that having female circumcision done is more superior than non circumcisied women, and that to feel spiritual in nature through intercourse then you ought to have it done - a push towards having it done, something I do not agree with.  
Have you had sex before to make this claim, which of course would be only your experience so you cannot speak for all.

How can it be OK for Western women to have breast surgery, nose jobs or (dangerous) lipo-suction - all in the name of aesthetics, but it's not
OK for a Muslim woman to change her body?
 
I think you read too much into it here but Perhaps it is in the qur'an not to change appearance, and believe me it is a change in appearance, just because you don't see it.
 
I don't know this isn't some nose job or lipo-suction! or for aesthetics! This is female circumicision we are taking about.
 
Sixth, it is well known in countries as far afield as Indonesia and Malasyia to Egypt, that girls who have been circumcised do better in school and university.
 
Oh come on, you don't believe this do you ? I hear similar stories in the west, if I had a dollar for each one I'll probably be a millionaire by now.
You don't think that other factors come in to it?
 
How can it be that the West claims to champion women's rights but tries to deny Muslim girls the right
to a better education, something that is closely correlated with the practice of female circumcision in Muslim countries?
 
Oh come on, your claim about the west here in this point is ridiclous! what proof do you have ? And what proof do you have the female circumcision is only responsible for girls doing better in their education?
I honestly think this is a false claim to push for female circumcision.
 

Angel.



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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