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Message Icon Topic: female circumcision [Moderator Edited](Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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rami
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bullet Posted: 23 March 2005 at 10:41pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

See Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Da‘ifah by al-Albani, no. 1935.


Is this
Nasir al-Albani?  if so he is an unacceptable authority in traditional Islam ie the four schools of thought and there is real doubt over his scholarship and qualafications ie Ijazah as a muhadith.

If it is
Nasir al-Albani as i am assuming, i do not want to turn this thread into a discussion about him.

as i stated earlier the above view is that of the shafii and hanafi madhhabs given by scholars from those madhhabs who have proper ijazah to do so although i am not familiar with
"Sister Shazia Ahmad". if you require further clafirication on the issue please ask them it is a Q&A site after all.

If you would like to know more about the scholars behind Sunnipath.com
here is the link

Just to add,

"
' Umdat al-Salik wa 'Uddat al-Nasik (Reliance of the Traveller and tools of the Worshipper) is a classic manual of fiqh. It represents the fiqh rulings according to the Shafi'I school of jurisprudence." It is certified by "Al Azhar". It represents an explanative interpretation of 'Umdat al-salik, a classic Sunni manual of sacred law by Ahmad Ibn Naqib al-Misri (d769/1368) that comprises the work of Imam Nawawi, the great thirteenth century Shaffi hadith scholar and juriprudent (expert in fiqh). Ibn Naqibs famous handbook carefully summarizes the onclusions of Nawawi's legal encyclopidia al-Majmu on all aspects of practicing Islam, from prayer, marriage, jihad, and inheritence to other facets of islamic life.

The book contains over six thousand rullings of islamic law, more than any other english refrence volume.
Of the 136 works drawn upon in its commentary and appendices, 134 are in the original Arabic.

Basicaly the rullings i gave above are those of traditional sunni islam not the opinions of people!


I also have a copy
.



Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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rami
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bullet Posted: 24 March 2005 at 5:47am

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

asslamu alaikum

The following is the shafii ruling on female circumcision as found in Reliance of the Traveller.

e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (O:for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuse (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistaken assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of a women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband). (p.59)

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Sophie_J
 
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bullet Posted: 25 March 2005 at 1:58pm
Asalaamu Alaykum

a warning for you, a sister and I were harassed by circumcision [Moderator Edited] in the past as they came into our group on hijab issues; the sister and I found that these people have groups on yahoo where all the articles posted by 'ameenah99999' are posted; these groups are full of nasty pornographic pictures of women and girls being mutilated and abused;[Moderator Edited]

To brother Rami that is one shafi'i view on female circumcision there is also another view; it isn't required and many of those who believe it is now say that has been abrogated by circumstances such as many Muslims going to extremes with what is done (the sunnipath fatwa posted has more info on this)

Sophie

Please do not use terms like that again. Your post is highly speculative, please do not slander forum members it will not be tolerated.   Rami.


Edited by rami
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chastebeauty
 
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bullet Posted: 25 March 2005 at 11:28pm

Salamualaykum

It so interesting and sad to see so called Muslims are busy consoling themselves over mistakes they are clearly aware is unislamic and uncalled for, upon all, encouraging others to make the same mistakes they made...Authubillah!!! May Allah save us from their sharr for indeed what they are encouraging is bida'a. The prophet SAW was sent to give a perfect guide on how we should live our lives(sunnah), how come there is no authentic hadith proving he circumcised his daughters or wives?.....Get real and be sober for you went thru pain unnecessarily and seek for forgiveness for those you misled (Ameenah9999 & co).

Great job herjihad....U got good points there (they kept contradicting themsleves!!

Salam!!!

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rami
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2005 at 2:54am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

chastebeauty the rulings i gave are those of the four madhabs, this is the traditional islamic view, if you believe something other than this you are welcome to your opnion but you have no right to accuse the four madhhabs and Great scholars like Imam al Nawawi who was a mujtahid of Biddah.

If you dont know the place of the madhabs in islam what good will a hadith do you, do you have the neccesary qualafications in Usul al Fiqh to be able to derive a fatwa from it?



Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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rami
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2005 at 4:47am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

>>> To brother Rami that is one shafi'i view on female circumcision there is also another view; it isn't required and many of those who believe it is now say that has been abrogated by circumstances such as many Muslims going to extremes with what is done (the sunnipath fatwa posted has more info on this)<<<

Let us first establish the fact that it is required in the shafii madhhab, second the only reason why it is not recomended is becouse the proper practice of the required act has almost been lost. This is not a different rulling but a dispensation which a person may follow if he chooses, almost does not mean entirely and it is a general statement. It does not abrogate the Shafii decision.

I have clearly shown that 3 out of the four madhabs at least consider it adab ie courtesy, and i dont know what the maliki position is, so the matter can never be declared haram or a bidah or unislamic or any other wishfull label.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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bullet Posted: 26 March 2005 at 10:55pm

Salamualaykum,

It seems someone is getting me wrong here and infact I wasn't referring to u Rami in my earlier posts. When I first read this thread I only schemed through your posts but didn't digest them cos it was kind of confusing, talkless of going into details of accusing any ruling or anybody as u stated; (chastebeauty the rulings I gave are those of the four madhabs, this is the traditional Islamic view, if you believe something other than this you are welcome to your opinion but you have no right to accuse the four madhhabs and Great scholars like Imam al Nawawi who was a mujtahid of Biddah). I don’t remember this person's name talkless of accusing him.

You could have proves allowing circumcision from the madhhabs which I am just hearing for the first time yet confusing and contradicting. Usually in situation like this I rather ignore.

Secondly, As long as all they say is, circumcision is courtesy and not circumcision is fard or sunnah, from my knowledge anything practiced outside these two ( fard and sunnah) is considered Bida'a. So probably you could enlighten me more on what bida'a is in a way other than mine.  

Finally, my question was simple and straight forward; I try my best to follow Sunnah and expect every Muslim to, as I believe the prophet never left out any practice we were to follow especially an ancient practice like this. There fore they should please provide a prove where he practiced circumcision on his daughters and wives...that would really help me understand better and of course change my view, but if it’s just a culture accepted by the madhhab point of view, then Alhamdulillah I am out.

Salaam.

 

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bullet Posted: 26 March 2005 at 11:08pm

Salam,

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Best Regards & Peace,
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