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Message Icon Topic: female circumcision [Moderator Edited](Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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AhmadJoyia
 
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2005 at 8:57am

Bro Rami,

Its not me who introduced this quote "See Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Da‘ifah by al-Albani, no. 1935.", but it was done by  abuayisha in her earlier posting, however, I see my mistake by not putting her comments in quotes in my own reply. Also we, or atleast I, would like to know more about true sunnah of our Prophet on the topic rather than knowing the "Big people's names" of some madhib or behind any website. All your quotes on the topic has done is to provide the final verdict, but not the evidence on which they based their view. Cheers!  

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Sophie_J
 
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2005 at 2:59pm
Asalaamu Alaykum

brother Rami I have PM'ed you on this issue the obscene articles posted by Ameena99999 describe forms of mutilation that are HARAM in all madhabs these articles have been deleted from every other Islamic forum they have been posted on in the past so I suggest you do the same inshaAllah

Sophie
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fezziwig
 
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bullet Posted: 27 March 2005 at 11:49pm

Seems to me that if god wanted your body to be thus-and-so he would have made it thus-and-so.

F

 

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rami
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bullet Posted: 28 March 2005 at 5:19pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

After discussing the issue with the head moderator we have decided the original post and those following will be removed and any further posts of such nature will be dealt with in a similar manner.

I feel the posts are inapropriate and plainly wrong in there approach towards further understanding the issue. I have taken into account the pm sister Sophie sent me but it was not entirely the basis for my decision.

I have decided to keep the posts relating to fiqh since this is a valid Islamic discussion.




Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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rami
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bullet Posted: 28 March 2005 at 7:13pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

chastebeauty
>>>You could have proves allowing circumcision from the madhhabs which I am just hearing for the first time yet confusing and contradicting.<<<

If you mean by contradicting that the madhhab has more than one rulling, in a madhhab there can be more than one position held by different scholars in the madhhab usually these are labeled as the major and minor positions of the madhhab meaning the majority of say the shafii madhhab agree on such and such a ruling, so this would be regarded as the stronger position while the other is the weaker. It is permisable to follow either the major or minor position 's but it is more recomended to follow the major, everything is by intention.

>>>
So probably you could enlighten me more on what bida'a is in a way other than mine.<<<

you may like to read the following article,

The Sunni Definition of Bid`a, By Dr G.F Hadad

http://www.livingislam.org/n/sdb_e.html

The Concept of Bid'a in the Islamic Shari'a
Sh. Nuh Ha Mim Keller 1995

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/bida.htm

>>>There fore they should please provide a prove where he practiced circumcision on his daughters and wives...that would really help me understand better and of course change my view, but if it’s just a culture accepted by the madhhab point of view, then Alhamdulillah I am out.<<<

Personaly i dont know much on this rulling except for what i posted, i dont know what the key proofs are since Reliance of the traveller is a book of ruilings in the shafii madhhab it does not discuss the key proofs, the author in the book said he will translate the key proofs at a latter date in a sister work titled "The Guidance of the Traveller" they are there in arabic but not translated as of yet. If you read my post from sunni path again more carefully you will see that the shaffi positions is that it is approved act but since the art has died out it is no longer practiced.

Please read what i posted again more carfully they do not contradict but complament and further explain each other.

Ahmad
>>>
Its not me who introduced this quote "See Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Da‘ifah by al-Albani, no. 1935.", but it was done by  abuayisha in her earlier posting<<<

I am sorry for the mistake i didnt notice.

Everyone please use quotation marks when posting it would save a lot of confusion.

>>>rather than knowing the "Big people's names" of some madhib or behind any website.<<<

for that you will have to see a scholar who is familiar with the rullings of the shafii madhhab, i am not. The rulling i gave was not simply from a website of some madhhab it was from reliance of the traveler a book about the rullings of Imam An Nawawi A mujtahid Imam in the shafii Madhhab, i dont understand what you will do once you see what the proofs are you are not in a position to analise the rulings of a mujtahid to know how he arrived at his position.

Sophie

>>> brother Rami I have PM'ed you on this issue the obscene articles posted by Ameena99999 describe forms of mutilation that are HARAM in all madhabs these articles have been deleted from every other Islamic forum they have been posted on in the past so I suggest you do the same inshaAllah<<<

What i posted was in relation to female circumcision not mutalation, we have to make that point clear. Mutalation is haram without question but curcumcision is not.

Just a note for everyone asking to see proofs that rasull allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) practiced this act we need to understand how islamic rulings are arrived at, The quran and the sunnah are our primary sources but so are the companions of the prophet and the actions of the tabe'een.

Generaly speaking we need to learn about Usul al Fiqh "the methodolgy of how our scholars arive at rullings in islam". I am not a scholar and have a very basic understanding of the matter but i think some knowledge is required it is not as simple as finding a hadith wich clearly says dont do such and such, that is over simplistic.

Insh allah if people have the time please read

USUL AL FIQH AL ISLAMI; SOURCE METHODOLOGY IN ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/alalwani_usulalfiqh/

Imam Al Shafii played a Key role in developing this science.

There is a reason why our scholars are respected, they are smarter than we are, allah in the quran says "are those who know equal with those who dont?" he himself streses a difference between those who know and those who dont.

Fezzwig
>>>>Seems to me that if god wanted your body to be thus-and-so he would have made it thus-and-so.<<<<

by that reasoning stop cutting your hair.





Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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AhmadJoyia
 
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bullet Posted: 28 March 2005 at 7:54pm

"i dont understand what you will do once you see what the proofs are you are not in a position to analise the rulings of a mujtahid to know how he arrived at his position. "

Dear Bro Rami,

Without going into the details of the issue, I do admit that I am the most ignorant person in Islam. I also admit that I have very little, rather no knowledge of Islam at all. However, I also believe, that God has given me a mind to think and ponder over His creation.  To use this mind to understand Islam through my awken consciousness and not through blind faith. Just as an example, all prayers are required to be offered with full consciousness. It is for this reason, of awken consciousness, that all alcohlic beaverages were initially made unlawfull before going for rituals of prayers. Man should know what he is praying for, with all his mental faculties open and fully devoted to the rememberance of Allah. Would you still suggest me not to wish for the evidence as to how our great ulema reached at a particular conclusion? Besides, there is a difference of opinon among themselves, based upon various factors, that depends upon someone's understanding through one particular angle, or it could be ignorance on the part of a particular Alim concernign a key evidence "a parituclar hadiths" that might not be available to that Alim before making his opinion. It is in this sense, that even these  scholars of famous madhibs themselves had asked their people to throw away their opinion, if a new evidence "a sahih hadith" that contradicts their opinion is found. We also know that not all madhib were developed simultaneously; but evolved in time through the science of critical logic (Mantik) where the student had the liberty of contrasting his teacher, if he had better logical arguments consistent with the evidence from Quran and Sunnah. Hopefully, thirst of looking at the basic evidence would not be discouraged, but encouraged in this forum.

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MOCKBA
 
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bullet Posted: 29 March 2005 at 1:12am

wonder what happened to the initial two posts, especially the first lengthy experience... now it seems that it was me who generated the subject.

MOCKBA

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Nausheen
 
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bullet Posted: 29 March 2005 at 5:07am
Originally posted by MOCKBA

wonder what happened to the initial two posts, especially the first lengthy experience... now it seems that it was me who generated the subject.

MOCKBA

I thought you did not like them, so you got them wiped off the face of the forum 

Hope you are getting aboard

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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