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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Jesus' Great Commandments: The Bridge? Post Reply Post New Topic
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2011 at 11:52am
Basically, I'm saying that a person can't be a fully-faithful, orthodox Muslim or Christian without obeying Jesus/Isa's teaching about "loving the neighbor as oneself".   What do you think about that statement, IslamisPeace?  Agree? Disagree?


Yes, I agree.  You are absolutely right.   
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote YieldedOne Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2011 at 11:02pm

Thanks, mods.  Big%20smile



Edited by YieldedOne - 12 February 2011 at 6:03am
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Quote YieldedOne Replybullet Posted: 12 February 2011 at 1:31pm
So, my brothers and sisters, what is the best means by which to disseminate these truths in our own spheres of influence, whatever they may be.  I'd like to put some practical "legs" to this.  Shouldn't this be taught whenever Muslims teach about who Isa is and what he taught?  I know it should be that way with Christian teaching (even though it isn't far too often!).  How does this apply in general Muslim/Christian relationships?  How does this work out in current religious dialogue between the groups?  Stuff like that.

Edited by YieldedOne - 12 February 2011 at 1:33pm
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Quote YieldedOne Replybullet Posted: 13 February 2011 at 7:30am
Ok.  I'm trying to pare this down a bit.  Make it such that the argument can be concisely stated.  Pretty much two paragraphs.  Here goes nuthin...
 
*************************
 
Major Point:
Qur'anically speaking, a person cannot be a true, faithful Muslim without obeying Jesus/Isa's Torah-Injeel teaching about "loving the neighbor as oneself"
 
Discussion of Major Point:
According to Hammudat Abd Al-Ati's summary of the fundamental articles of Islamic faith--found in his work "Islam in Focus"---true, faithful Muslims are obligated by their faith to believe what can be reasonably discerned as authentic, uncorrupted Torah (Torat) and Gospel (Injeel) teaching from the Holy Books of the "people of the Book", namely Jews and Christians.  This is explicitly affirmed within the Qur'an.  (Surahs 2:136, with cross referencing of 3:1-43:84; 4:163-165; 6:84-87.)  Moreover, true Muslims are to fully obey the divinely revealed teaching of God's Messenger and Prophet, Isa/Jesus (Surah 43:63-64), as Jesus' teaching was "confirming the Torah" which antedated him. (Surah 61:6-7
 
Given all this, if it is true that Deuteronomy 6:4-6 and Leviticus 19:9-18 (The Great Commandments of Jesus ala Matthew 22:34-40) are good candididates for authentic Torat and Injeel material--per meeting the specifications of accepted Islamic commentaries, such as those produced by Maulana Maududi--then, from Abd Al-Ati's perspective and others like him, the "true Muslim" absolutely must believe in those passages as genuine revelation from Allah and live them out faithfully.  To do otherwise is to implicitly break faith with Allah and rebel against Allah's truth as revealed by a divinely-sent Messenger, Prophet, and Messiah, Isa/Jesus. 
 
Implications of Major Point and Discussion:
Muslims and Christians are bound by mutually-held belief in Jesus/Isa as Allah's Mesenger and Prophet and his teaching of the "Great Commandments" such that both groups are committed by their own holy books to obey Jesus/Isa's commands to "love your neighbor as yourself."
 
************************
 
I feel like this is concise enough while still getting everything necessary in.   A nutshell encapsulation of a chief implication the stuff on this thread.
 
Thoughts, people? Wink


Edited by YieldedOne - 13 February 2011 at 8:41am
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Quote YieldedOne Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2011 at 7:25am
Ok...not as much interaction as I'd like...but what the hey. LOL
 
Figured I'd do some more paredown for simplification. 
 

Torah-asserted, Jesus-affirmed Commandments from God

"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.  This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

 

Torah-asserted, Jesus-affirmed Criteria for "Loving Your Neighbor As Yourself"(Leviticus 19:9-18)
1) When you gain from your work, don't just think about yourself. Think of the poor and the wayfarer.
2) Don't steal.
3) Don't operate by false pretenses or motives.
4) Don't lie to each other.
5) Don't oppress or rob your neighbor.
6) Don't mistreat the physically (or mentally) challenged.
7) Don't promote injustice or partiality. Judge righteously.
8) Don't slander others.
9) Don’t threaten the life of your neighbors.
10) Don't hate your brother (or sister) "in your heart."
11) Don't take vengeance for yourself.
12) Don't hold a grudge against your neighbor.

 

The "New" Commandment from Jesus...

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another."

"This is my command: Love each other."

 

Verification of Jesus' teachings by His followers...

"For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another." --1 John 3:11

 

For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself  --Galatians 5:13-14

 

The Core Message of Jesus as God's Prophet and Messenger:

Human beings are to express singular worship of and submission to the One Uncreated Creator by a) thanksgiving, adoration and glorification to the Creator and b) works of loving-kindness and compassion to others and ourselves. In this, we are also to consecrate ourselves and be holy, compassionate, merciful, and loving because our Creator is holy, compassionate, merciful and loving.



Edited by YieldedOne - 21 February 2011 at 8:56am
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2011 at 2:01pm

Hi,

I don't mean to be the black sheep here, but apart from what everyone agrees what about some real issues like associating with God the son and the holy ghost. That is something that is against basic fundamantals of not just Quran but of the Bible. Similarly, when one come accross painted and carved images and representations or I should call misrepresentation of God's beloved people (as no one who painted these images or carved these idols has personally ever seen them) like Jesus, Mary, God, Saints and so on and see people bowing, kneeling and worshipping them. While such acts are forbidden both in Quran and the Bible, how should one settle and accept these acts by others when God has said to have disliked them and warned against a terrible panelty to those practicing them?
 
I can understand living in peace with all fellow being, but it is not to be based on how many similarities we find between our beliefs rather it is a command from God. Worship of idols and that of other than God is wrong, and it must be pointed out like all the prophets did when they were sent to guide people.  They taught their people to do the same, we must not accept false worship or worship to anyone other than God as an acceptable act even be done by our own brother or sister. It is wrong and must be discussed and the correction made. Of course it is upto the person to decide for themself at the end, for which they will be held responsible.
Just my thoughts!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote YieldedOne Replybullet Posted: 02 March 2011 at 3:04pm

Honeto:
I don't mean to be the black sheep here, but apart from what everyone agrees what about some real issues like associating with God the son and the holy ghost. That is something that is against basic fundamantals of not just Quran but of the Bible. Similarly, when one come accross painted and carved images and representations or I should call misrepresentation of God's beloved people (as no one who painted these images or carved these idols has personally ever seen them) like Jesus, Mary, God, Saints and so on and see people bowing, kneeling and worshipping them. While such acts are forbidden both in Quran and the Bible, how should one settle and accept these acts by others when God has said to have disliked them and warned against a terrible panelty to those practicing them?

I can understand living in peace with all fellow being, but it is not to be based on how many similarities we find between our beliefs rather it is a command from God. Worship of idols and that of other than God is wrong, and it must be pointed out like all the prophets did when they were sent to guide people.  They taught their people to do the same, we must not accept false worship or worship to anyone other than God as an acceptable act even be done by our own brother or sister. It is wrong and must be discussed and the correction made. Of course it is upto the person to decide for themself at the end, for which they will be held responsible.

 

Thanks for responding, Honeto!  Good stuff. 

The statement that you made that I embolded is exactly my point: It is a COMMAND FROM GOD (via Moses and Jesus) that Muslims and Christians "love their neighbors as themselves."   To fail to live this out is to implicitly rebel against God's declared will.
 
The question is simply this: can people who have wrong beliefs about God (unto idolatry) be corrected in the context of loving them as neighbor?  I believe that's possible.  I don't see how correcting person where they may be wrong theologically necessitates malice, deception, or indifference against the neighbor (the things that Leviticus 19:9-18 talks about).
 
Surely a Muslim can hold to their convictions, testifying to the truth of monotheism and hold dialogue with non-Muslims in attempts to reason with them while STILL following Isa's commands...right?  We can love people who do unacceptable acts...because we are commanded to by what God said through Isa/Jesus via  the Torat and Injeel.
 
Would you disagree with this?
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 03 March 2011 at 11:26am
Dear Newbie,
I think your innocent assumption needs to be addressed:
First, the command of living in peace with others that I follow as a Muslim is not somthing that I take from the Bible rather the Final Testament, The Quran, which in my observation and examination proved to be more reliable and authentic then the modified versions left with us of what was revealed before it.  Islam's message through Quran is that of peace and justice, peace an individual achieves and that what radiates outward from the heart of a believer toward all created beings.
2:224 (Asad) AND DO NOT allow your oaths in the name of God to become an obstacle to virtue and God-consciousness and the promotion of peace between men: (2,212) for God is all-hearing, all-knowing.
In Islam we believe that what the last Prophet (pbuh) taught was no different than what Isa (pbuh) or prophets taught before him. Do we have with us today what previous prophets were given as word of God pure and unaltered. A simple obeservation reveals the true answer.
By the way I know of many passages in the Bible that command killings of those who worship other gods. If you don't know them, let me know and I will show you those because your last sentance above does not match to the contents of the Bible.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 03 March 2011 at 11:33am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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