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rememberallah
 
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Quote rememberallah Replybullet Topic: layers of Atmosphere and Quran
    Posted: 22 November 2010 at 11:26pm
"it is he who created everything on the earth for you and then deircted his attention upto heaven and arranged it into 7 REGULAR HEAVENS. He has kowledge af all things"
-Quran {2:29}

this verse was revealed 1400 yrs ago and we all know the kind of scientific development existed then in that age and nobody at that time could have told such big a truth which we came to know in space age, for there are no visible divisions in the sky, at that time even the thought was impossible!!!!!

it is in today’s times after "PENETRATING THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH" {55:33} ie going in space age, that we know that there are 7 layers in atmosphere
1 troposphere layer
2 stratosphere layer
3 ozone layer
4 mesosphere layer
5 thermosphere layer
6 ionosphere layer
7 exosphere layer

truly we cant deny the verse when it says in the end "He has knowledge of all things".
{Request - its a request to Quran translators to translate the 2 Arabic words "jannat" and "samawaat" differently as they are different, jannat meaning paradise and samawaat meaning sky, they should not use the word heaven, for any of the two as this creates obvious confusion in the mind of the reader. True heaven is a word with dual meaning and can be appplied to both meanings but in the end we should make things more clear and use more specific words.}



Edited by rememberallah - 27 November 2010 at 1:13pm
The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 27 November 2010 at 9:11am
rememberallah, when you try to force a square peg into a round hole you usually get a mess and that is exactly what you have done here.  You are trying to stuff modern science into the Quran and it may fit but you are trying too hard.  For one thing the layers you list make a mess of the last 80 years of atmospheric science.  There are 5 atmospheric layers.  The ionosphere and ozone layers are subsets of other layers.  If you try hard enough you can actually subdivide the 5 primary layers down into any number of subsets such that you could arrive at a number of layers anywhere between 5 and 20 or so sublayers.    
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rememberallah
 
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Quote rememberallah Replybullet Posted: 27 November 2010 at 1:23pm
my brother schmikbob
my brother i am not arguing but i see no mess, modern science ie your square peg is smaller than the Quran the round hole which gave birth to the educational zeal that resulted in development of modern science. today we muslims have left it but if we return there will be a scientist in every house.
i don;t think any atmospheric scientist will look at it and hold his head and say "O my God who has written this" so i have not at all made mes of last 80 yrs of research.
point is not that there are layers or sublayers point is can you deny these are the most recognised layers. point is "layers" can you deny ozone is not a layer.
in the end in Arabic 7 or 70 does not neccesarily mean 7 or 79 it could mean many more.
forget everything can you tell by your naked eye if there are layers in sky ?? calculating earth's circumference a 2000 yrs ago was easier but telling this even 100 yrs ago was impossible; just impossible. But the claim of Quran there are layers in sky and it being proven when we have "penetrated skies" as prophecised in {55:33} initself is a miracle.
The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 28 November 2010 at 8:44am
rememberallah, you just said "in Arabic 7 or 70 does not neccesarily mean 7 or 79 it could mean many more" yet two posts ago you attached great meaning to "7 REGULAR HEAVENS".  You have also tried to make "heavens" substitute for "layers".  Once again, I have no problem with your interpreting the Quran.  Every Islamic scholar will do that to some degree.  However only recently are Islamic scholars trying to derive scientific information from the same book.  I am not saying that the Quran is not compatible with science but it certainly does not predict or predate scientific discoveries of the last 200 years.
By the way, Christianity also went down this road.   They stopped attempting it because it caused ridicule and drove people away from their ranks.     
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rememberallah
 
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Quote rememberallah Replybullet Posted: 30 November 2010 at 10:28am
@ schmikbob - you said - However only recently are Islamic scholars trying to derive scientific information from the same book.
my reply - my brother peace be on you, i tell you of a recent thing too, it is recently only that man went into space and Quran predicted in {55:33} - "penetrate into regions of skies and earth, you will not be able to penetrate but without authority, then which of the verses of your lord will you deny?"
according to Quran the going of man into skies will be an age that the verses of Quran will come to full bloom when they won't be able to be denied.
my brother give thought - you said that  "I am not saying that the Quran is not compatible with science". my brother why is it that Quran that speaks on so many things on which so much unimaginable scientific research has been done in last 200 yrs is compatible??? how could Quran even claim there are layers in atmosphere. n btw to man of 7th century there was one heaven above their head, Quran claimed there are 7 above you and not one, this intself is a thing to be wondered upon.
heaven is not equal to paradise in translations of Quran, it refers to skies as the word used is samawat, it is translation of word jannat which means paradise.  muslim scholars are attempting it but they are not being ridiculed highest scientists when are being presented verses of Quran are commenting "these words can not come from 1400 yrs ago except if it is indeed the word of God"
eg see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjZElaBLfa0

The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 30 November 2010 at 9:15pm
rememberallah, I will say this one more time.  If you think Muhammed was the first person and the Quran the first book to use the "7 heavens" or "7 regular heavens" or the "7 anything" reference you are sadly mistaken.  The magic number seven and the reference to 7 heavens had been around for centuries prior to Muhammed.  It is strange that only in the last century have certain Muslim scholars (not all mind you because some know better) tried to insert their own scientific interpretation onto verses that have been defined and explained ad infinitum without science.
Also, you are associating compatibility with science as some sort of divine inspiration when in fact a great many ancient books are compatible with science and I am reasonably certain you would not associate them with divine inspiration.
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rememberallah
 
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Quote rememberallah Replybullet Posted: 02 December 2010 at 6:08am
brother schmikbob nowhere, ever did anyone claim there are 7 heavens. show me. i think you are also confused about word heaven
heaven is not equal to paradise in translations of Quran, it refers to skies as the arabic word used is "samawat" in Quran, it is translation of word jannat which means paradise. 

muslim scholars are attempting it {quran and science}but they are not being ridiculed, as even highest scientists when are being presented verses of Quran are commenting "these words can not come from 1400 yrs ago except if it is indeed the word of God"
eg see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjZElaBLfa0




Edited by rememberallah - 04 December 2010 at 6:20am
The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 02 December 2010 at 9:00pm
I am sorry rememberallah, I do not understand this phrase "they are not being ridiculed highest scientists when are being presented verses of Quran are commenting "these words can not come from 1400 yrs ago except if it is indeed the word of God"
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