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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2012 at 4:17am
Originally posted by bunter


Tell me, do you think the only place we can find truth is in the Quran?


YES! YES! YES!
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2012 at 7:15am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by bunter

Tell me, do you think the only place we can find truth is in the Quran?
YES! YES! YES!


Interesting, so two questions:

1. Where can I find Ohms law in the Quran?

2. More seriously, the Bible speaks of the people God loves in the Old Testament as follows, do you think this is true or maybe you have a verses in the Quran that expresses the same ideas?

Zephaniah 3:17 "The Lord your God is in the midst of you, a Mighty One, a Saviour! He will rejoice over you with joy; He will rest [in silent satisfaction] and in His love He will be silent and make no mention [of past sins, or even recall them]; He will exult over you with singing.

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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2012 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by bunter


Tell me, do you think the only place we can find truth is in the Quran?


YES! YES! YES!


Why, why, why? Smile

help me understand the Qur'an and what you find in it... and help me to understand why you believe in Muhammad...

You have read the Qur'an?

I think you, or someone else, has shared with me the 'miraculous' battles that Muhammad won... so I kind of get that...


Edited by Caringheart - 28 September 2012 at 2:54pm
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2012 at 12:05am
Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by bunter

Tell me, do you think the only place we can find truth is in the Quran?
YES! YES! YES!


Interesting, so two questions:

1. Where can I find Ohms law in the Quran?

2. More seriously, the Bible speaks of the people God loves in the Old Testament as follows, do you think this is true or maybe you have a verses in the Quran that expresses the same ideas?

Zephaniah 3:17 "The Lord your God is in the midst of you, a Mighty One, a Saviour! He will rejoice over you with joy; He will rest [in silent satisfaction] and in His love He will be silent and make no mention [of past sins, or even recall them]; He will exult over you with singing.



1. Where can I find Ohms law in the Quran?

Ohms Law is earthly and nothing to do with God Almighty. :)

2. More seriously, the Bible speaks of the people God loves in the Old Testament as follows, do you think this is true or maybe you have a verses in the Quran that expresses the same ideas?

The Bible has been abrogated by the Holy Qur'an.
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2012 at 12:12am
Originally posted by Caringheart



Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by bunter


Tell me, do you think the only place we can find truth is in the Quran?


YES! YES! YES!
Why, why, why? [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />help me understand the Qur'an and what you find in it... and help me to understand why you believe in Muhammad...You have read the Qur'an?I think you, or someone else, has shared with me the 'miraculous' battles that Muhammad won... so I kind of get that...


I cannot help you understand the Holy Qur'an as you will need faith and then guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. I believe in Muhammed (pbuh) because what he says a mere human being cannot say. His hadiths and sayings are full of wisdom that it can only come from above. Contrary to what you Christians believe Muhammed (pbuh0 advocated love between human beings not hatred nor death. I have read the Holy Qur'an in the English translation as I do not know Arabic ( I can read the Holy Qur'an in Arabic but do not understand what I am reading, one will still receive blessing for every Arabic letter that is read from the Holy Qur'an). You have to open your heart and get rid of your pre-conceptions taught to you by Christian priests, preachers and missionaries.

Read the Holy Qur'an properly and you will see that it is impossible for an Arab living in Mecca in the seventh century AD to know what is in the Holy Qur'an. He relates stories from the Bible with crystal clarity, not humanly possible.

Muhsin Khan

He it is Who enables you to travel through land and sea, till when you are in the ships and they sail with them with a favourable wind, and they are glad therein, then comes a stormy wind and the waves come to them from all sides, and they think that they are encircled therein, they invoke Allah, making their Faith pure for Him Alone, saying: "If You (Allah) deliver us from this, we shall truly be of the grateful.
But when He delivered them, behold! They rebel (disobey Allah) in the earth wrongfully. O mankind! Your rebellion (disobedience to Allah) is only against your ownselves, - a brief enjoyment of this worldly life, then (in the end) unto Us is your return, and We shall inform you that which you used to do.
10:22-23

Do you think a human being is capable of such simplicity as the above quoted verses? Or the one below...

Sahih International
The example of [this] worldly life is but like rain which We have sent down from the sky that the plants of the earth absorb - [those] from which men and livestock eat - until, when the earth has taken on its adornment and is beautified and its people suppose that they have capability over it, there comes to it Our command by night or by day, and We make it as a harvest, as if it had not flourished yesterday. Thus do We explain in detail the signs for a people who give thought.
10:24

Edited by Abu Loren - 29 September 2012 at 3:46am
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2012 at 1:59am
=Abu Loren

1. Where can I find Ohms law in the Quran?

Ohms Law is earthly and nothing to do with God Almighty. :)

2. More seriously, the Bible speaks of the people God loves in the Old Testament as follows, do you think this is true or maybe you have a verses in the Quran that expresses the same ideas?

The Bible has been abrogated by the Holy Qur'an.

What an odd idea, surely God made the Universe and so Ohms law is part of his creation? Your idea that the Bible has been abrogated is very odd - for example it has the ten commandments which include love God, do not steal, do not tell lies - are you saying these basic morality laws have been done away with something else?

Edited by bunter - 29 September 2012 at 2:00am
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2012 at 2:10am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

I cannot help you understand the Holy Qur'an as you will need faith and then guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. I believe in Muhammed (pbuh) because what he says a mere human being cannot say. His hadiths and sayings are full of wisdom that it can only come from above. Contrary to what you Christians believe Muhammed (pbuh0 advocated love between human beings not hatred nor death. I have read the Holy Qur'an in the English translation as I do not know Arabic ( I can read the Holy Qur'an in Arabic but do not understand what I am reading, one will still receive blessing for every Arabic letter that is read from the Holy Qur'an). You have to open your heart and get rid of your pre-conceptions taught to you by Christian priests, preachers and missionaries.

Read the Holy Qur'an properly and you will see that it is impossible for an Arab living in Mecca in the seventh century AD to know what is in the Holy Qur'an. He relates stories from the Bible with crystal clarity, not humanly possible.


Thank you, but are you not able to see that a Christian will say the words of Jesus cannot be those of a mere human being. I cannot help you understand the Bible, you must read it for yourself because nothing I say will convince you if the Bible does not. Try starting with the Gospel of Mark.

I think if you want to see if the Quran relates Bible stories with crystal clarity you must read those stories for yourself in the Bible. If you do you will find that what the Quran relates always differs in some way from the Bible accounts so one or other is wrong.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2012 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Abu Loren


I cannot help you understand the Holy Qur'an as you will need faith and then guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. I believe in Muhammed (pbuh) because what he says a mere human being cannot say. His hadiths and sayings are full of wisdom that it can only come from above. Contrary to what you Christians believe Muhammed (pbuh0 advocated love between human beings not hatred nor death. I have read the Holy Qur'an in the English translation as I do not know Arabic ( I can read the Holy Qur'an in Arabic but do not understand what I am reading, one will still receive blessing for every Arabic letter that is read from the Holy Qur'an). You have to open your heart and get rid of your pre-conceptions taught to you by Christian priests, preachers and missionaries.

Read the Holy Qur'an properly and you will see that it is impossible for an Arab living in Mecca in the seventh century AD to know what is in the Holy Qur'an. He relates stories from the Bible with crystal clarity, not humanly possible.

Muhsin Khan

He it is Who enables you to travel through land and sea, till when you are in the ships and they sail with them with a favourable wind, and they are glad therein, then comes a stormy wind and the waves come to them from all sides, and they think that they are encircled therein, they invoke Allah, making their Faith pure for Him Alone, saying: "If You (Allah) deliver us from this, we shall truly be of the grateful.
But when He delivered them, behold! They rebel (disobey Allah) in the earth wrongfully. O mankind! Your rebellion (disobedience to Allah) is only against your ownselves, - a brief enjoyment of this worldly life, then (in the end) unto Us is your return, and We shall inform you that which you used to do.
10:22-23

Do you think a human being is capable of such simplicity as the above quoted verses? Or the one below...

Sahih International
The example of [this] worldly life is but like rain which We have sent down from the sky that the plants of the earth absorb - [those] from which men and livestock eat - until, when the earth has taken on its adornment and is beautified and its people suppose that they have capability over it, there comes to it Our command by night or by day, and We make it as a harvest, as if it had not flourished yesterday. Thus do We explain in detail the signs for a people who give thought.
10:24


Greetings Abu Loren,

Thank you and I appreciate your reply very much.

The way I am seeing it, Muhammad's 'hadiths and sayings' that 'are full of wisdom' , come from the Judeo-Christian religion... yes, from above, to the Jews and through Jesus.

"You have to open your heart and get rid of your pre-conceptions taught to you by Christian priests, preachers and missionaries. "

This is a misconception.  This is not the way I have gained my belief.  I was not taught by priests, preachers, or missionaries.  I read the Bible.  Now I am reading the Qur'an.

Why do Muslims discount the fact that Muhammad was traveling since the time he was a young child, exposed to many things, including the religion in other parts?  Where was Jesus as a child?  Sitting in the synagogues, listening to the teachers there.  Why not Muhammad?  Muhammad also had a much older wife who was very familiar with Christian teaching.  Muhammad had had a lifetime of exposure to learning by the time he made his 'revelations'.  I do not discount that Muhammad was a great leader for his people. 

Regarding the first verse(10:22-23)... it reminds me of when Jesus' disciples were in the boat crossing the sea of Galilee and a storm blew up and they were afraid, and Jesus rebuked them for their disbelief, and calmed the storms, and they said who is this that even calms the seas.(Mark 4:35-41, Luke 8:22-25 and Matthew 8:23-27)  Yes, it is perfectly possible for Muhammad to retell the story in his own words.  Yes, I believe both verses are perfectly capable of being spoken by a human with knowledge.  This is my opinion as I read, and I am reading with an open mind... but I have read the Bible first... the Bible came first.  What no one realizes is that I actually began in defense against the accusations brought against the Qur'an.  This is what has brought me into deeper study of Islam.

Peace and blessings to you,
Caringheart
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