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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Every living thing made from water. Post Reply Post New Topic
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rememberallah
 
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Quote rememberallah Replybullet Posted: 30 November 2010 at 4:23am
@ schmikbob - you said - the importance of water to all living things was known and related over 500 years before the birth of Christ and it is not astonishing or even notable that it was also known in the 7th century in Saudi Arabia.
i comment - yes my brother i partially agree with you but the beliefs then were also filled with myths, eg. if you say info was copied from Thales of Miletus as you have quoted him in your earlier post, then why would not the wrong info not be copied but only the right info?? why doesnt Quran have concept of earth quakes being there because of water below earth's surface??
as that was the belief then, why just right info.
why is it that the greek sciences of that time fail the test of time but Quran of an illitrate man of an illitrate community with no scientific culture stands taller than a whole civilization of scientists???
truly there are signs for men who give thought.
may peace be on you.
The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 01 December 2010 at 7:03am
rememberallah, are you seriously asking me why the Quran did not adopt the scientific beliefs of the 7th century.  I really think that instead of posting about how the Quran predicts and predates the scientific discoveries of the modern era you need to spend a little more time researching the scientific beliefs of 7th century Greece.  Then you should study in detail the hadiths on the Quran which detail the meaning in the Quran and Mohammed's words much differently than you and the majority of Muslims do.  
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rememberallah
 
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Quote rememberallah Replybullet Posted: 02 December 2010 at 5:59am
my brother peace be on you
i have read the Quran and hadiths.........there is no error in Quran from point of view of science. but there are some errors in hadith, but those can be rejected as 1 - not being for the prophet and somebode has lied that prophet has said.
2 - somebody from the chain of reporters had weak memory.
In islam Quran is paramount as it is the word of God, hadith are secondory and are from memory of not one but chains of persons.
moreover hadith do not explain whole of Quran but only some parts of it, the major section of prophet's commentory on every verse of Quran is not to be found but to be derived.
infact Quran claims "only after a time will you understand the message completely" ie the statements of Quran was for a coming period and Quran was ahead of its time.
i have done a lot of study on history of science, the 7th century greece knowledge was far from being "THE SCIENCE" as it was filled with erroneous beliefs which were disproved later, there were some people who were right in some things {not all} whose particular beliefs were proved correct later but their other beliefs were proved to be wrong.
did greek science ever claim that the sky {stars, planets, comets, sun, moon etc.} had common origin and at one point of time were joined???? did it??
Quran does {21:30} - "do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together befor WE clove them asunder?"
what else does modern science say but that all matter and space was once concentrated which separated in Big Bang.
Brother give thought
may God guide all.
The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 03 December 2010 at 6:35pm

So if I read your first point correctly you are stating that the hadiths are corrupted.  Is this correct?  The next obvious question is who is going to determine which ones are corrupted?   

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rememberallah
 
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Quote rememberallah Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2010 at 5:25am
my brother schmikbob
peace be on you, what you have asked will start a new thread.
in short there is a whole study behind hadiths and they are classified under correct, weak, fabricated etc.
back to the point, is it all you could point out in my reply.......m brother schmikbob, peace be on you, listen to your heart, after reading my last post, listen to your heart, one's attitude is against oneself....i do not even know you, i always find people are not merciful to their own true nature, which gets weak, weak and one day dies, such things give it some life but people because of their socialisation kill it again.
my brother peace be on you
may God have mercy on all/

The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2010 at 10:39am
Originally posted by schmikbob

So if I read your first point correctly you are stating that the hadiths are corrupted.  Is this correct?  The next obvious question is who is going to determine which ones are corrupted?   



Maybe this helps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_studies#Discussion_of_validity



Edited by Matt Browne - 05 December 2010 at 10:39am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2010 at 9:37pm
Matt, excellent link.  Much of this information was new to me.  However, I am afraid my respect for hadith material has just been reduced from some to not much at all.  I am having horrible visions of the game that has several people in a circle and the object is to pass a story around to see how the original story get mutated by the end of the telling.  Yikes.
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2010 at 9:44am
Hadiths are in a similar situation as the Gospels are relying on oral traditions before they were written down. But historians using scientific method can make some sense of it. And there are other independent sources corroborating or undermining certain content. Modern Christianity relies on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_criticism

for example.
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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