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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2010 at 11:27am
Assalamu alaika Schmikbob.

It was not rememberallah, but friendship.
Your statement:  Agnosticism is more about "knowledge" of the existence of a god.  It does not deny the possibility of the existence of a god.  It merely states that it is impossible to prove it.

Response.Therefore such books or knowledge did not come from God i.e. Revealed by Him through the intercession of angel Gabriel on that very Friday Adam was created to that very moment Allah revealed His last Message to Muhammad Rasulullah. If such knowledge came between Monday to Thursday, I have no knowledge of that and therefore cannot prove it. You know it and I will never dispute with you.  It is impossible to make you believe in what you do not know. But the Book of genesis talked about the rainbow which is a covenant between Allah and mankind. Is rainbow then not a proof of the existence of Allah. Did you not find proof of Allah in Exodus for example Ex:19?

Your statement: I have some news for you and it may come as a shock.  Your statement does not follow the rules of logic and, since proof follows the rules of logic, your statement doesn't constitute proof of anything.

Response: I thought you will give me the greatest shocking news of the discovery of a bacteria that survives in arsenic environment!
If you are thinking of the desire of the Children of Israel's request to Moses to see Allah face to face, then it is impossible. You will see Allah face to face on the Day of Judgement. At that moment you will remember Friendship and regret not listening to me.

 


Edited by Friendship - 04 December 2010 at 11:31am
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2010 at 11:50am
My mistake rememberallah, I meant to address my last post to Friendship.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2010 at 7:52am
Friendship, you are using circular reasoning in your argument.  That means you are using some unproven statement as one of the assumptions of your argument.  Come back when you understand what that means and then we will have a logical discussion .
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2010 at 8:57am
Friendship, tolerance is appreciation of diversity, the ability to live and let others live, the ability to adhere to one's convictions while accepting that others adhere to theirs. Some people believe in God and others don't. Your way works best for you, different ways work best for others.

The belief in God is a belief. Don't confuse it with a fact. I know it feels very real to you. You are convinced. This is fine. But please accept that others might feel about it differently. Trying to scare people that they will go to hell doesn't work in the 21st century when you meet educated people. It's also unfair and usually very counterproductive.

My question wasn't just about religious texts written in Arabic. What about science and novels?

I find it very alarming that there are so few books written in Arabic.

Question about Nigeria: when you visit a bookstore, what languages are offered? Where are these books printed?




Edited by Matt Browne - 05 December 2010 at 9:00am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2010 at 11:21am
Assalamu alaika Matt Browne.

Friendship, tolerance is appreciation of diversity, the ability to live and let others live, the ability to adhere to one's convictions while accepting that others adhere to theirs. Some people believe in God and others don't. Your way works best for you, different ways work best for others.

Reply: This was and is the teaching of Muhammad. Diveristy is a reflection of the bounties of Allah and should be used for the benefit of mankind and not as a stool of oppression.


The belief in God is a belief. Don't confuse it with a fact.
My Question: Belief is part and parcel of fact like a reflected image and its object i.e. real is positive. A refracted image is false and not positive. This is science. Allah is Real although you do not see him. you perceive light but you do not know it.
But please accept that others might feel about it differently.
Reflect please: What do you know about the Large Hadron Collider if not the tunnel? But scientists believe in the collision of electrons and protons and atomic bombardment. Please limit yourself to what you can understand and do not jump.
 Trying to scare people that they will go to hell doesn't work in the 21st century when you meet educated people. It's also unfair and usually very counterproductive.
Reflect: The first scaring was done in 1250BC when Allah turned the river nile into blood, frogs filled nile and from there they went into houses, beds etc, gnats invaded egypt, lice, dead animals, sores, locusts and hailstones.

My question wasn't just about religious texts written in Arabic. What about science and novels?
Reply: This is an unintelligent question to ask. Yes, you could learn whatever you want to learn in German in your country. Probably, in Africa there is only one country speaking German. You should know about the effect of colonialisation and subjugation.

I find it very alarming that there are so few books written in Arabic.
 Reply: I find it most alarming tht there re few books written in other languages explaining the holy Qur'an.

Question about Nigeria: when you visit a bookstore, what languages are offered? Where are these books printed?

Reply: consequence of colinialization and subjugation. We were never allowed to learn arabic.



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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2010 at 11:03pm
Assalamu alaika Schmikbob.


Please stop dodging. I am like David of the OT. I know no fear. It is your desire not to  be an agnostic. You should therefore stop using circular reasoning in your argument.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 06 December 2010 at 7:06am
Friendship, I understand that it is an excellent debating tool to throw someone argument back at them.  However, what I have never seen before is someone do it in such a disjoint and utterly spacious manner.  You need to get a handle on some basic debating tools before getting into a discussion on logic.
Also, there are very few "unintelligent'' questions to ask.  Matt has asked a very pertinent and well thought out question to which I do not have the answer.  Just because you apperently don't have the answer either is no reason to call the question unintelligent.  Colonialization and subjugation might have made good excuses in centuries past but it doesn't apply today as an answer (and he's not talking about only Nigeria).  Try again.   
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2010 at 9:35am
Science relies on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

The Quran relies on spiritual truth. These are different layers of understanding.

The LHC in Geneva relies on scientific method.

But there's one question science cannot answer: What is the ultimate origin of the natural laws? I think God is.

Some scientists claim that GUT or ToE or the multiverse explain the natural laws. But there's no way around infinite regress. What is the ultimate origin of a super law explaining natural laws? I think God is.
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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