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Islam for non-Muslims
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wwood
 
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Quote wwood Replybullet Topic: Qur'an promote war?
    Posted: 02 November 2010 at 6:58am
Some people say yes, some other people say no.

But ins't the Jihad a war? There can be right wars to be fighted where people die? If Allah is the only God, why the people can't have different ideas?
If Allah is the right God, the unfaithful will be punished when they die...


What do you think?

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Sign*Reader
 
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2010 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by wwood

Some people say yes, some other people say no.

In this situation of yes and no answers a better way would be, read Quran yourself particularly with a commentary indicating the prevailing conditions of ignorance, incessant wars whether internecine tribal or inter national nature...

But ins't the Jihad a war?

The literal meaning of Jihad happens to be effort or struggle...Anywhere you have to exert extra effort becomes jihad and biggest effort or jihad is to control the selfish, gluttonous, corrupt leanings of any ones personality! Getting enlisted to go to war is way low on the totem pole! As an individual you have no authority per Quraan to start a effort that will be called a war...It will be too whimsical to assume as such!


There can be right wars to be fighted where people die?

Of course just compare the death data of all wars and see how many times Quraan's injunctions had any role where people died...I mean civilians! unheard of!

 
If Allah is the only God, why the people can't have different ideas?

They sure do! Just look at all the cults and Isms( Communism /Capitalism/ Marxism/ Mormonism/Hinduism/the list is endless) of the east and the west, Allah says you have all the free will, have all the ideas but you know then all these isms  do end up fighting for the control and then the wars take place and people get killed and hurt and makes them guilty in Allah's court!
If Allah is the right God, the unfaithful will be punished when they die...
What do you think?
Allah is not only right god, He is only God! That is the basic creed that makes a man Muslim...There is no god but Allah...
By universal principle the guilty face the music in this world too and there will be no room to think when the evidence of crime or being guilty is self evident in hereafter! If anyone will escape from disgrace of being guilty that would only be by Allah's grace granted through his beloved Prophet Mhmd(p) cuz He was the only one and also the last who completed God's given task on this earth!
Finally if you have a nation and you need to protect it, wouldn't you have department of Defense?



Edited by Sign*Reader - 02 November 2010 at 11:40pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2010 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by wwood

Some people say yes, some other people say no.But ins't the Jihad a war? There can be right wars to be fighted where people die? If Allah is the only God, why the people can't have different ideas?If Allah is the right God, the unfaithful will be punished when they die...What do you think?


A summary of Qur'an/Islam's attitue towards War would be:

- As a blanket rule, In Islam it is forbidden/Haraam to kill innocent human beings (of any religion). (Whatever action is termed Haram in Islam means that doing that would be a BIG sin and a Muslim will have to spend time in Hell to compensate for that Sin.)

- It is even forbidden to kill animals for pleasure/sport/needlessly. And discouraged to cut down, uproot or destroy vegetation such as trees etc, unless circumstances demand it. (trying to illustrate the value Islam gives to "Life" in general.. not just humans)

- Islam allows us to fight Jihad & wars when circumstances demand it. We are not forced to 'turn the other cheek'. Muslims CANNOT use Jihad/War as a justification to impose tyranny on other states/nations or fight for material reasons. If Muslims do not have a valid justification for war - they can be held responsible in the hereafter (and courts of earthly law.

- EVEN during war, Muslims have to abide by the Islamic injunctions of preventing casualties to innocent human beings. This protection extends to the flora/fauna of the area, such as destroying trees/burning crops etc. As well as places of worship. Women, children, Old, Priests etc cannot be harmed. By default this eliminates 'suicide bombings on civlilans' as a valid means of warfare and this cannot/should not be used.

- Muslims cannot use 'forcible conversions' as a justification for War, since Islam does not allow us to compel people into Islam. I'm assuming this is what you meant. Yes people can have different ideas, even under Islamic rule or otherwise. Even if by our islamic standards they are considered to be incorrect.
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2010 at 5:36pm

Chrysalis, you state "Islam allows us to fight Jihad & wars when circumstances demand it".   This a pretty generic statement and could mean almost anything.  WWood, you should know that for the 13 centuries after the the death of the Prophet, Jihad has almost exclusively meant actual war, either with what have been perceived as infidels or apostates.  It is only recently, for whatever reason, that the definition of Jihad has been softened somewhat to be "effort or struggle".    

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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2010 at 11:40am
Originally posted by schmikbob

Chrysalis, you state "Islam allows us to fight Jihad & wars when circumstances demand it".   This a pretty generic statement and could mean almost anything.



Yes it is a generic statement. But it pretty much sums it up. If anybody wants to go into depth of circumstances, they are welcome to.

 
WWood, you should know that for the 13 centuries after the the death of the Prophet, Jihad has almost exclusively meant actual war, either with what have been perceived as infidels or apostates.
  It is only recently, for whatever reason, that the definition of Jihad has been softened somewhat to be "effort or struggle".    



The definition of 'jihad' has not been softened Bob. This is what Jihad's definition has always been since day 1. Just because people have never been aware of that definition does not mean it was recently conjured up or softened. Whenever muslims want to be specific they use words such as "Jihad fee sabilillah" or "Jihad un nafs" (in arabic, used respectively for Jihad in Allah's cause, or Jihad against Nafs i.e. personal struggle). Ofcourse people have a tendency to shorten words.It literally means 'struggle'. e.g. people will say: Its a jihad just to wake up early in the morning.

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2010 at 12:10pm
I understand what you are saying Chrysalis.  My point does not concern the literal meaning of the word.  My point was that Muslim leaders of the first 1300 years after the revealing of the Quran have further defined it to be literal war or armed conflict.  That has changed in the last 100 years probably because it is not a sound long term strategy to go around calling for armed conflict against anyone that is a non-believer.  It tends to unite the unbelievers against you.
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2010 at 1:57am
Originally posted by schmikbob

I understand what you are saying Chrysalis.  My point does not concern the literal meaning of the word.  My point was that Muslim leaders of the first 1300 years after the revealing of the Quran have further defined it to be literal war or armed conflict.  That has changed in the last 100 years probably because it is not a sound long term strategy to go around calling for armed conflict against anyone that is a non-believer.  It tends to unite the unbelievers against you.


Actually I think the media has defined Jihad to be literal war or armed conflict... not us Muslims. Before 2001 I bet majority of non-muslims hadn't even heard of the word, let alone know its meaning. So the brunt lies on modern-day media.

Yes even muslims will sometimes use 'jihad' to mean the 'war'. But almost all muslims are pefrectly aware of different jihads. When I attended a Islamic Summer school (Pakistan), we were reading about Jihad... and the teacher quoted a hadith saying that Jihad-un-nafs (personal struggle) is the better jihad. So even on an educational level we are clearly taught the difference. Even in conservative nations such as Pakistan.

"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Usmani
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Quote Usmani Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2010 at 9:59am

Quote: But isn’t the Jihad a war? There can be right wars to be fighted where people die? If Allah is the only God, why the people can't have different ideas?

Jihad has various meanings as other friends have explained already. I will try to limit myself Jihad which you wanted to know.Allah has given freewill to all human to choose Islam or follow any other religion or even one can be live without any religion.


We believe that there is only one God/Allah and this earth belongs to Him. As we all knows that human are not the creator of this earth. So in very simple words creator/the owner rules/system have be implemented and followed by every human here. The straggle for doing that is called jihad.
Jihad which is going on for last few decades  is not the one i have just explained.
 
To have this Jihad(one I expained), majorty of Muslim have to be the real good Muslim.Today's Jihad is the result of injustice upon Muslims which is going on agaisnt Muslims in varius places of the earth.
 

Quote: If Allah is the right God, the unfaithful will be punished when they die...

Sure they will, Allah have allowed them to accept Islam or not practice whatever religion they wish to but under the Allah rules. One can have their worship place within these rules

Edited by Usmani - 07 November 2010 at 10:17am
Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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