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Message Icon Topic: Why building a mosque near "ground zero" is bad Post Reply Post New Topic
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2010 at 6:49am
"New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has defended the 13-story, $100 million Islamic center, said Obama's remarks reminded him of George Washington. "
 
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2010 at 7:27am

But if the Islamic centre is built; and if it is to be, as professed, a bridge to understanding and reconciliation, there are a few tests we could apply — a few thoughts or suggestions for what might reasonably be found in such a strategically placed building, shadowed as it will forever be by the spectral dust of 2001.

For example, a mosque in deliberate proximity to the scene of the Ground Zero slaughter will surely — unavoidably — have a section, a room, or a display, perhaps a miniature museum, on the events of that horrible day — giving some interpretation on what happened and why: what that day said, and did not say about Islam.

Could there not be, for example, photographs of the 19 fanatic terrorists? They could be presented in some sort of stylized rogues gallery: Here are those who plotted and executed evil jihad against America. Underneath, there could be a statement of categorical condemnation: These were a band of betrayers and corrupters of Islam, who did perverse deeds in Islam’s name. We Americans, Muslims all, in this holy place condemn and scorn their deeds and motives.
Maybe this could be accompanied by some work of art to commemorate the dead — those who died in the attacks themselves, and those who died during the attempt to rescue people within the towers.

If it is to be in the vicinity of 9/11’s wreckage, it must pay respectful and felt homage to 9/11.
A mosque, that by its instalations and presentations, derided the mischiefs done in Islam’s name, which in its declarations and stated understanding of 9 11 actually turned out to be a thorn in the side of fanatic Islamists everwhere, would be a worthy adjunct to the precincts of the now absent twin towers. It would be a work of understanding.

Rex Murphy: Testing America’s tolerance

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Sign*Reader
 
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Quote Sign*Reader Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2010 at 8:38am
RW
Who gives a crap about this unknown Canadian blowhard after the Man in bully pulpit spoken?
So you think Murphy's nonsense carries more weight than the king of the western world? Pinch
What you got to say yourself, blurt that!


Edited by Sign*Reader - 14 August 2010 at 8:50am
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2010 at 11:09am

giving some interpretation on what happened and why: what that day said, and did not say about Islam.

 

Would it satisfy Mr. Murphy or anyone else that a copy of the 911 Commission report be prominently encased in glass?  An official report on what happened that day which has been criticized by the commissioners themselves as “set up to fail”.  What happened, why, and how will likely never make its way into a museum.   

 

Could there not be, for example, photographs of the 19 fanatic terrorists?

 

Much like the case of those Israeli agents who murdered the Palestinian in a Dubai Hotel; how many of the 19 are we able to accurately display?  Several according to name and photo were alive and well living peacefully in their countries post 9/11 and merely had there identities stolen.

 

Here are those who plotted and executed evil jihad against America. Underneath, there could be a statement of categorical condemnation:

 

Yes, indeed it was an evil plot, however least we forget an addendum to the people of Iraq who suffered needlessly as a result of 2001.  Place a 9/11 “Bush Doctrine – Never Again” plaque with a statement of categorical condemnation to the many more American and Iraqis who died.

 

These were a band of betrayers and corrupters of Islam, who did perverse deeds in Islam’s name. We Americans, Muslims all, in this holy place condemn and scorn their deeds and motives.

 

Those were indeed a band of betrayers and corrupters of Islam, who did horrible deeds in a perverse and twisted understanding of Islam.  We as American Muslims and in honor to those American Muslims who died at ground zero along with their fellow citizens, condemn and scorn the deeds and motivation of the terrorists on September 11, 2001.


 

 

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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2010 at 12:42pm

Originally posted by abuayisha

Would it satisfy Mr. Murphy or anyone else that a copy of the 911 Commission report be prominently encased in glass?  An official report on what happened that day which has been criticized by the commissioners themselves as “set up to fail”.  What happened, why, and how will likely never make its way into a museum.

No harm in that, but what is really needed is condemnations from Muslims, not some government commission.

Much like the case of those Israeli agents who murdered the Palestinian in a Dubai Hotel; how many of the 19 are we able to accurately display?  Several according to name and photo were alive and well living peacefully in their countries post 9/11 and merely had there identities stolen.

There were some incorrect identification shortly after the attack, but those mistakes were corrected.  We now know their identities with confidence.  Among other things, a computer hard drive was recovered from the terrorists themselves, with photos and details of all the terrorists.

Yes, indeed it was an evil plot, however least we forget an addendum to the people of Iraq who suffered needlessly as a result of 2001.  Place a 9/11 “Bush Doctrine – Never Again” plaque with a statement of categorical condemnation to the many more American and Iraqis who died.

And I suppose you could include information about the ongoing tragedy in Afghanistan, human rights abuses in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, the terrible plight of the Palestinians and the atrocities committed by Israel, and a whole lot of other issues.  These are all worthwhile messages, and perhaps another Muslim centre should be created to communicate them; but it should be located elsewhere.  "Ground Zero" is a symbolic location to Americans, and nothing should be allowed to dilute the main message that Muslims repudiate the 9/11 attacks and disassociate themselves with the attackers.

What you definitely don't want is any implication that the attacks were in any way justified by the Bush Doctrine or anything else.  That would do more harm than good.

Those were indeed a band of betrayers and corrupters of Islam, who did horrible deeds in a perverse and twisted understanding of Islam.  We as American Muslims and in honor to those American Muslims who died at ground zero along with their fellow citizens, condemn and scorn the deeds and motivation of the terrorists on September 11, 2001.

Thumbs%20Up Well said.  Somebody make that into a plaque or something.  That is exactly the message that needs to be conveyed, loud and clear.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2010 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

And I suppose you could include information about the ongoing tragedy in Afghanistan, human rights abuses in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia, the terrible plight of the Palestinians and the atrocities committed by Israel, and a whole lot of other issues.  These are all worthwhile messages, and perhaps another Muslim centre should be created to communicate them; but it should be located elsewhere.  "Ground Zero" is a symbolic location to Americans, and nothing should be allowed to dilute the main message that Muslims repudiate the 9/11 attacks and disassociate themselves with the attackers.

What you definitely don't want is any implication that the attacks were in any way justified by the Bush Doctrine or anything else.  That would do more harm than good.

 
Iraq can not and should not be linked generally with other human rights abuses, as the tragedy which took place in Iraq is directly linked to 9/11 and executed by state plotters.  Our country is now unable to take any moral high ground in the shadow of what took place in Iraq, unless, of course we are seen as hypocritical and insensitive.
 
There is no risk of somehow justifying the attacks based upon the "Bush Doctrine" because the doctrine was implemented after the attacks when  emotions ran high.
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2010 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by abuayisha

Iraq can not and should not be linked generally with other human rights abuses, as the tragedy which took place in Iraq is directly linked to 9/11 and executed by state plotters.  Our country is now unable to take any moral high ground in the shadow of what took place in Iraq, unless, of course we are seen as hypocritical and insensitive.
The common link is simply that they are all issues that affect Muslims, and an information centre that presents the Muslim perspective might be helpful.  I just don't think it would be helpful to locate such a centre near Ground Zero.  To me, that's about as insensitive as the infamous Danish cartoons of Muhammad.  Sure, they have every legal right to do it, but it is culturally inappropriate and unnecessarily provocative.
 
There is no risk of somehow justifying the attacks based upon the "Bush Doctrine" because the doctrine was implemented after the attacks when  emotions ran high.
The term Bush Doctrine was coined by Charles Krauthammer in June, 2001 -- but anyway, the exact timeline is not important.  The average person will probably know little and care less about the order of events.   I've made the point before that if you want to communicate a clear message, you need to avoid mixed messages.  Condemning 9/11 will be seen as insincere and hypocritical if you combine it with a condemnation of Bush or American foreign policy. 
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2010 at 6:32pm

Well it's not the label of the doctrine which concerns us here, but the planning and horrible implementation.  Condemning of 9/11 has been clear and pretty much unequivocal from the Islamic world and American Muslims from the day 9/11 happened.  My response was concerning comments of Mr. Murphy with respect to the cultural center.  Let us not forget that Muslims died also at Ground Zero, and Muslims are sensitive to mixed messages that our dead are somehow unimportant, whether in America or Iraq.  Ron, "Shock and Awe" hurt our feelings.

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