IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Human rights debate brews over French anti-burqa

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martha

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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 1:31pm

Gibbs,

Am certain as far as UK is concerned that lack of space is a concern for most citizens here. It really is getting too crowded to swing a cat. I don't think the US is the same. So..I guess people here feel intimidated when women wear the burka because there is not getting away from it.

Another interesting point from UmmFatima is that she is most likely correct re: more militancy amongst the British Muslims. The UK is far more obliging to muslims however than France. France has a great deal of rioting with eg:ALgerian muslims, so perhaps France is making a stand? Like I mentioned before these 2,000 burka wearing muslims are mainly white reverts so it is all rather crazy. But whilst France has banned the burka it will not be banned in the UK.

Hayfa,
I will look out for any updates on the dog issue. You are right of course regarding the education bit. And of course the British non-muslim also does not know about muslim views on dogs. So it is a vicious cycle in that sense. And it is sad that ignorance can be the cause of so many troubles everywhere.

Hmm..blue hands from toilet water..I will have to remember that, lol

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

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Sign*Reader

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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 2:10pm

I am lost in the wilderness around this mountain made out of this molehill...

Why is it so bothersome to these so called high minded Europeans particularly who are shamelessly living off the future earnings of their grand kids if they are going to have any to say the least!
Don't they have anything better to do?

The vote almost being unanimous! Holy smoke what have they been smoking?

In a recent news the French El Presedente Sarkozy was trying to cover his derriere from the illegal campaign financing from who charges? the Bettencourts! And who is Bettencourt? You will know soon...
BTW This is what he said:
"Can you imagine? I arrive in front of the guests, and I leave with cash? This slander."
Now you figure who really needs a veil? Big%20smile

How can one go crazy about this "thing" the way these French have gotten fried about!
There is something called the civil rights the democracy of the lunatics notwithstanding! What happened to it or that is just in the Land of Freedom Frys! LOL

No pun intended really!

Don't these idiots in the French Assembly know they are providing free publicity to the "veilers" around the global village!

I think there might be a dire consequences if that small piece of black cloth is not arrested soon( or the providers thereof ) it will destroy French life style on the riviera...Think No naked French women man and that will be the disaster for them all! LOL
The hole in the deficit ridden budget will get bigger may the real cause of this brouhaha! These guys are not that st**id, but may be!

Finally it may be harbinger of a catastrophe for the god's chosen L'Oréal business! who knows for sure?

Edited by Sign*Reader - 19 July 2010 at 8:51pm

Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.

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Hayfa
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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 8:28pm

I agree there is a different culture here then in Europe. I think it is tied to economics as people from the lower economic strata often feel discriminated and left out. We is the US don't let those Muslims in. Heck you cannot get here on a TOURIST visa without a college degree. So the Muslims here, on a whole are quite well off.

And as Martha said, there is lots of space. But even in NYC, people seem to work things out.

And in Europe the "European" sector is also aging. They are not reproducing itself. Who is going to do the work?

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi

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Sign*Reader

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Posted: 19 July 2010 at 9:17pm

Good article on the subject!
http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.asp?Frame=1&referenceID=51981

Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.

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martha

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Posted: 20 July 2010 at 5:37am

Seems France is not the only one going mad on these issues.

Syria and Egypt now ban the full face veil or niquab in public places for security and secular reasons accoriding to a facebook pal.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jV_-6kvuvHLoKhskSm80Smyln5vAD9H2BJEG0

http://sify.com/news/syria-bans-niqab-from-universities-news-international-khuqOhjicbh.html

Something that has amused me this morning from the Daily Star
"One day the burqa will be banned everywhere except in the UK, where it will be worn by the rebellious, the edgy and the ones who dare to be different. The burqa is fashion forward. Do you dare to wear?"

The Daily Star goes on to say that

"Britain Embraces Muslim Punk"

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

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Sign*Reader

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Posted: 20 July 2010 at 4:01pm

Originally posted by martha

Seems France is not the only one going mad on these issues.

Syria and Egypt now ban the full face veil or niquab in public places for security and secular reasons accoriding to a facebook pal.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jV_-6kvuvHLoKhskSm80Smyln5vAD9H2BJEG0

http://sify.com/news/syria-bans-niqab-from-universities-news-international-khuqOhjicbh.html

Something that has amused me this morning from the Daily Star
"One day the burqa will be banned everywhere except in the UK, where it will be worn by the rebellious, the edgy and the ones who dare to be different. The burqa is fashion forward. Do you dare to wear?"

The Daily Star goes on to say that

"Britain Embraces Muslim Punk"

As a Muslima you must not be part of the mocking about "veil" martha!
Personally I am not its proponent cuz it is not clear that Quranic injunction was just for the Prophet's wives only or across the board... but this being the honor attached to the mothers of the believers ought not be the point of derision!
This may cause the loss of credits so be mindful!

Next I DO NOT consider Syria & Egypt any longer as honorable nations or countries since they are in bondage to the z'nist and were shamelessly involved with shameful extraordinary rendition activities...
They need to be tried in some court some day for their crimes! Their governments are in place just they have in bed with imperialism!

The people there have no rights or an access to the courts of where they can get justice one way or the other!

The dictators can tell the hapless people to stand on their heads; what choice they have like circus animals...

Edited by Sign*Reader - 20 July 2010 at 6:27pm

Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.

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martha

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Posted: 20 July 2010 at 4:34pm

@Sign*

I was not mocking the discussion about the veil,nor mocking the veil itself, but the Daily Star article was amusing. I would agree with you if you had said the new British punks wearing the burka is offensive. Absolutely I would! But how could we stop it from happening? People are often strange and sometimes sick. It only takes one sicko to start a fad doesn't it.

ANd despite whatever anyone thinks of Syria and Egypt the fact remains that they are muslim countries. My point is if France is criticized about their actions against muslims then how do we explain away Egypt and Syria? Surely we would be better placed to promote overturning the ban in Egypt and Syria?

I do not say France are right or wrong with this burka issue. ANd I still maintain it is woman's right to wear or not wear the veil without enforcement either way.

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

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Sign*Reader

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Posted: 20 July 2010 at 6:58pm

martha
The argument is very simple; France (With Motto:Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood) the presenter of statue of Liberty to the US the leader of the civil rights and sitting in the heart of democratic enlightened west need to be judged by higher standards whereas Egypt & Syria both lacking in all areas of something called the freedom to chose their leaders a smack in the face of true Islamic republican concept...
As matter of fact it must be their old colonial French masters in Élysée Palace telling them to follow their lead!

Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.

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Topic: Human rights debate brews over French anti-burqa
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Author	Message
martha Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1141	Posted: 19 July 2010 at 1:31pm
	Gibbs, Am certain as far as UK is concerned that lack of space is a concern for most citizens here. It really is getting too crowded to swing a cat. I don't think the US is the same. So..I guess people here feel intimidated when women wear the burka because there is not getting away from it. Another interesting point from UmmFatima is that she is most likely correct re: more militancy amongst the British Muslims. The UK is far more obliging to muslims however than France. France has a great deal of rioting with eg:ALgerian muslims, so perhaps France is making a stand? Like I mentioned before these 2,000 burka wearing muslims are mainly white reverts so it is all rather crazy. But whilst France has banned the burka it will not be banned in the UK. Hayfa, I will look out for any updates on the dog issue. You are right of course regarding the education bit. And of course the British non-muslim also does not know about muslim views on dogs. So it is a vicious cycle in that sense. And it is sad that ignorance can be the cause of so many troubles everywhere. Hmm..blue hands from toilet water..I will have to remember that, lol
	some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
	IP Logged

Sign*Reader Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3352	Posted: 19 July 2010 at 2:10pm
	I am lost in the wilderness around this mountain made out of this molehill... Why is it so bothersome to these so called high minded Europeans particularly who are shamelessly living off the future earnings of their grand kids if they are going to have any to say the least! Don't they have anything better to do? The vote almost being unanimous! Holy smoke what have they been smoking? In a recent news the French El Presedente Sarkozy was trying to cover his derriere from the illegal campaign financing from who charges? the Bettencourts! And who is Bettencourt? You will know soon... BTW This is what he said: "Can you imagine? I arrive in front of the guests, and I leave with cash? This slander." Now you figure who really needs a veil? How can one go crazy about this "thing" the way these French have gotten fried about! There is something called the civil rights the democracy of the lunatics notwithstanding! What happened to it or that is just in the Land of Freedom Frys! No pun intended really! Don't these idiots in the French Assembly know they are providing free publicity to the "veilers" around the global village! I think there might be a dire consequences if that small piece of black cloth is not arrested soon( or the providers thereof ) it will destroy French life style on the riviera...Think No naked French women man and that will be the disaster for them all! LOL The hole in the deficit ridden budget will get bigger may the real cause of this brouhaha! These guys are not that st*id, but may be! Finally it may be harbinger of a catastrophe for the god's chosen L'Oréal business! who knows for sure? Edited by SignReader - 19 July 2010 at 8:51pm
	Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Hayfa Female Islam Senior Member Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2370	Posted: 19 July 2010 at 8:28pm
	I agree there is a different culture here then in Europe. I think it is tied to economics as people from the lower economic strata often feel discriminated and left out. We is the US don't let those Muslims in. Heck you cannot get here on a TOURIST visa without a college degree. So the Muslims here, on a whole are quite well off. And as Martha said, there is lots of space. But even in NYC, people seem to work things out. And in Europe the "European" sector is also aging. They are not reproducing itself. Who is going to do the work?
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
	IP Logged

Sign*Reader Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3352	Posted: 19 July 2010 at 9:17pm
	Good article on the subject! http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.asp?Frame=1&referenceID=51981
	Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
	IP Logged

martha Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1141	Posted: 20 July 2010 at 5:37am
	Seems France is not the only one going mad on these issues. Syria and Egypt now ban the full face veil or niquab in public places for security and secular reasons accoriding to a facebook pal. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jV_-6kvuvHLoKhskSm80Smyln5vAD9H2BJEG0 http://sify.com/news/syria-bans-niqab-from-universities-news-international-khuqOhjicbh.html Something that has amused me this morning from the Daily Star "One day the burqa will be banned everywhere except in the UK, where it will be worn by the rebellious, the edgy and the ones who dare to be different. The burqa is fashion forward. Do you dare to wear?" The Daily Star goes on to say that "Britain Embraces Muslim Punk"
	some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
	IP Logged

Sign*Reader Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3352	Posted: 20 July 2010 at 4:01pm
	*Originally posted by martha* Seems France is not the only one going mad on these issues. Syria and Egypt now ban the full face veil or niquab in public places for security and secular reasons accoriding to a facebook pal. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jV_-6kvuvHLoKhskSm80Smyln5vAD9H2BJEG0 http://sify.com/news/syria-bans-niqab-from-universities-news-international-khuqOhjicbh.html Something that has amused me this morning from the Daily Star "One day the burqa will be banned everywhere except in the UK, where it will be worn by the rebellious, the edgy and the ones who dare to be different. The burqa is fashion forward. Do you dare to wear?" The Daily Star goes on to say that "Britain Embraces Muslim Punk" As a Muslima you must not be part of the mocking about "veil" martha! Personally I am not its proponent cuz it is not clear that Quranic injunction was just for the Prophet's wives only or across the board... but this being the honor attached to the mothers of the believers ought not be the point of derision! This may cause the loss of credits so be mindful! Next I DO NOT consider Syria & Egypt any longer as honorable nations or countries since they are in bondage to the z'nist and were shamelessly involved with shameful extraordinary rendition activities... They need to be tried in some court some day for their crimes! Their governments are in place just they have in bed with imperialism! The people there have no rights or an access to the courts of where they can get justice one way or the other! The dictators can tell the hapless people to stand on their heads; what choice they have like circus animals... Edited by Sign*Reader - 20 July 2010 at 6:27pm
	Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
	IP Logged

martha Senior Member Joined: 30 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1141	Posted: 20 July 2010 at 4:34pm
	@Sign* I was not mocking the discussion about the veil,nor mocking the veil itself, but the Daily Star article was amusing. I would agree with you if you had said the new British punks wearing the burka is offensive. Absolutely I would! But how could we stop it from happening? People are often strange and sometimes sick. It only takes one sicko to start a fad doesn't it. ANd despite whatever anyone thinks of Syria and Egypt the fact remains that they are muslim countries. My point is if France is criticized about their actions against muslims then how do we explain away Egypt and Syria? Surely we would be better placed to promote overturning the ban in Egypt and Syria? I do not say France are right or wrong with this burka issue. ANd I still maintain it is woman's right to wear or not wear the veil without enforcement either way.
	some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
	IP Logged

Sign*Reader Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3352	Posted: 20 July 2010 at 6:58pm
	martha The argument is very simple; France (With Motto:Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood) the presenter of statue of Liberty to the US the leader of the civil rights and sitting in the heart of democratic enlightened west need to be judged by higher standards whereas Egypt & Syria both lacking in all areas of something called the freedom to chose their leaders a smack in the face of true Islamic republican concept... As matter of fact it must be their old colonial French masters in Élysée Palace telling them to follow their lead!
	Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
	IP Logged