IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Human rights debate brews over French anti-burqa

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   Pati,

It is interesting that you wrote what you wrote. A question, when the "news" picks up these stories, does it cover all the other abuse by nonMuslims, say boyfriend or spouse etc? Clearly things are in the news.

Another aspect to keep in mind is that other cultures are very much about privacy and "saving face." I have often seen that things may not be outwardly being addressed (to suit other peoples needs" but may very well be, being handled internally. 

Another aspect is that when you feel like you are being oppressed or thought ill of, you tend not to trust or want to discuss with the dominant culture. This is very much true in the black culture in American. They are not going to "air" their dirty laundry so to speak. They are not going to be given another chance to be attacked. And let's say there is a "internal" situation they don't often (with good reason) do not trust the wider society.

Take for instance the Amish here in the US. They do things their own way. They work out their own problems for good and for bad. 

Not that what this man did or others possibly compliance is correct, but it may very well be part of the motivation on the part of others. 

I talk to my aunt who is from Spain and she was talking about the unemployment situation in Spain. And I DO think much of this is to go after the "outside" group for whatever reason.  Those few women are just a symbol of the unpredictable times as you and I know those women are not going to be taking anyone's jobs. They are not responsible for what is going on. The vast majority of them work in the home. 

And her the niqab is quite a non-issue. We have the same security "threats" as anyone. But the issue is that they are not a threat to the average person. 

I think Europe will continue down this path of blaming the "outsider" and it will not solve their problems. You have an aging population, you must have immigrants. With that immigration the culture WILL change. Those who cling to the past will get lost there. Culture and societies are not stagnant. 

And do you REALLY think it is right to take some nice lady and throw her in jail for covering her face?Some the sweetest people I know wear the niqab. They do feel it is for religious.  Of course societies will make these rules. But do you really think this is the group to go after?  

Author	Message
Hayfa Female Islam Senior Member Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2370	Posted: 28 July 2010 at 9:49pm
	Pati, It is interesting that you wrote what you wrote. A question, when the "news" picks up these stories, does it cover all the other abuse by nonMuslims, say boyfriend or spouse etc? Clearly things are in the news. Another aspect to keep in mind is that other cultures are very much about privacy and "saving face." I have often seen that things may not be outwardly being addressed (to suit other peoples needs" but may very well be, being handled internally. Another aspect is that when you feel like you are being oppressed or thought ill of, you tend not to trust or want to discuss with the dominant culture. This is very much true in the black culture in American. They are not going to "air" their dirty laundry so to speak. They are not going to be given another chance to be attacked. And let's say there is a "internal" situation they don't often (with good reason) do not trust the wider society. Take for instance the Amish here in the US. They do things their own way. They work out their own problems for good and for bad. Not that what this man did or others possibly compliance is correct, but it may very well be part of the motivation on the part of others. I talk to my aunt who is from Spain and she was talking about the unemployment situation in Spain. And I DO think much of this is to go after the "outside" group for whatever reason. Those few women are just a symbol of the unpredictable times as you and I know those women are not going to be taking anyone's jobs. They are not responsible for what is going on. The vast majority of them work in the home. And her the niqab is quite a non-issue. We have the same security "threats" as anyone. But the issue is that they are not a threat to the average person. I think Europe will continue down this path of blaming the "outsider" and it will not solve their problems. You have an aging population, you must have immigrants. With that immigration the culture WILL change. Those who cling to the past will get lost there. Culture and societies are not stagnant. And do you REALLY think it is right to take some nice lady and throw her in jail for covering her face?Some the sweetest people I know wear the niqab. They do feel it is for religious. Of course societies will make these rules. But do you really think this is the group to go after?
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Hayfa Female Islam Senior Member Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2370	Posted: 28 July 2010 at 9:58pm
	just means to respect other people and their culture, the same way we respect them What does that mean? i do not hear Muslims in the west calling to ban alcohol? i do not hear them calling to slaughter all pigs? What exactly do you mean? Just cause I want to differently has nothing to do with respect. Most Muslims are pretty moderate people and in fact are not that, umm, active for lack of a better word. A few people are loud but most just go about their daily lives. It amazes me how people cannot step back and look at the whole and not a person. Most Muslim know nonMuslims and interact. A few are isolationists. But most really are pretty down to earth. Heck those very "vocal" people are mad at the rest of t he Ummah for being too "lazy." And really Pati, you are pretty smart, you know alot of the antagonisms are because the US (and a FEW) friend invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. When I first went to Pakistan, even after 9/11 and people were SO happy I came and told me how much they like the US. Well after these wars and drone killings in Pakistan, it all changed. I bet you if those wars had not happened we would not be having this conversation.
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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caesarjbsquitti Christian Starter Joined: 16 August 2010 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 2	Posted: 16 August 2010 at 2:19pm
	Anti-Burqa ban and its motivations ? I was made aware that some, that is some of the women who were using burqa's were in fact newly converted Muslims from North America... My concern is that some radical feminists are using the burqa to create negative setiments towards Muslims in general.... Please be careful there are some special interest groups who are all about developing chaos in this world and who seem to be focused on deliberately attacking traditional values by manipulating extremes and half-truths (truths that lie because they are part of the whole truth....a newly discovered form of half-truth...)
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Divya_Mohammed Groupie Joined: 14 July 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44	Posted: 18 August 2010 at 1:02pm
	Assalam Alaikum Haifa, Quote: What does that mean? i do not hear Muslims in the west calling to ban alcohol? i do not hear them calling to slaughter all pigs? What exactly do you mean? Just cause I want to differently has nothing to do with respect. Most Muslims are pretty moderate people and in fact are not that, umm, active for lack of a better word. A few people are loud but most just go about their daily lives. It amazes me how people cannot step back and look at the whole and not a person. Unquote Hyafa - you are comparing few Muslims in western countries not demanding to ban alcohol . But you must compare with what Muslim populations do in Muslim countries . I heard in Saudi Arabia they force burkha even on non-muslim visitors. How can there be 2 sets of standards. I fully agre that all Muslim women in west or anywhere should be allowed to wear burkha if they wish but in Saudi Arabia they wear because of compulsions. In Pakistan, even indigenous Pakistani Hindus are not allowed to wear Bindi or as per their desires. Even Christians will name themselves with corresponding Islamic equivalent to Biblical names. Dont you feel that non-muslims should be permitted to wear what they want (not bikinis or swim suits of course) and not force anyone. Tolerance has got to be all over - not just in western countries. In my country, no problem - u wear burkha if u wish and wear saree or salwar kamees or wear jeans shirt or office-wear as u wish irrespective of your religion. I think this is the best. In short, burka ban is wrong but burka enforcement is also equally wrong. Allah Hafiz Divya Mohammed
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