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fais
 
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Quote fais Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2010 at 9:23am

Salam,

this much i knw that sucking does not make ur wife haram on u but i think this shud be not a practise if it is done by mistake ok.but not drink it like dialy meal.


Edited by fais - 14 July 2010 at 9:24am
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2010 at 6:20pm
"....but i think this shud be not a practise...."
 
What is your evidence that it should not be done?  "Do" or "don't do" in this religion requires text, otherwise the general rule is permissibility. 
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fais
 
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Quote fais Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2010 at 9:48pm

salam,

ok i will ask the shaikhs and scholars about this.

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sunnyhitman1601
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Quote sunnyhitman1601 Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2010 at 3:03am
Gud... Its better to confirm surely about the rule.... Plz do ask from scholar and share with us...
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2010 at 1:37am
Bismillah,
 
Question to Brother Abuaisha :
 
Assalamualiakum wa rahmatullah.
 
reading your comments it seem according to shaykh Yusuf al Qaradawi the fostership is established only if one is suckled during the first 2 years. If so what about the hadith of the man who was jealous of the adopted child about 10 or 11 years old?
Rasul salallahu alaihe wassallam specifically ordered them to suckle the child so he becomes their foster son!
 
"Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared."  [Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3425 - 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her)]
Still looking for the ref. in Sahih Bukhari, and would be  interested in your response/comments.
 
barak Allahu Feek,
nausheen


Edited by Nausheen - 01 September 2010 at 1:38am
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2010 at 9:28am
Sister Nausheen, Ramadan Mubarak!  Allah bless you and your family.  I'm always pleased to see your name appear, and especially outside of the Sisters' section, because I make an effort not to post any comments there out of respect for several members desire that men stay out.  Anyway, Ahlan!
 
Clarification of Hadith About the Suckling of a Grown Man
 
In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Let us first look at the translation of the Hadith mentioned in the Sahih of Imam Muslim and elsewhere:

Sayyida A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reports that Sahla bint Suhayl came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: "O Messenger of Allah! I see on the face of Abu Hudhayfa (signs of dislike) on the entering of Salim, who is an ally, (into our house). The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: "Suckle him." She said: "How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) smiled and said: "I already know that he is a young man." (Sahih Muslim, no: 1453)

Another version of this Hadith is as follows:

Sayyida A'isha (may Allah be pleased with her) reports that Salim, the freed-slave of Abu Hudhayfa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i.e. the daughter of Suhayl and wife of Abu Hudhayfa) came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and said: "Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he has began to understand what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, think that Abu Hudhayfa feels uncomfortable with this. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to her: "Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the dislike) which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear." She returned and said: "I have suckled him and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhayfa has disappeared." (Sahih Muslim)

Before coming to any sort of conclusion, we need to first understand the background and context of this incident. Imam Abu al-Abbas al-Qurtubi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his commentary of Sahih Muslim:

"Salim (in this Hadith) is Salim ibn Ma'qal...Abu Hudhayfa had adopted him in accordance with the customs of the Arabs. He (Salim) had been brought up and raised by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife as their own son. When the verse of the Qur'an "Call them (your adopted children) by (the names of) their (real) fathers...."Surah al-Ahzab, V: 5) was revealed, the ruling of adopting children was abrogated (in that one can no longer consider an adopted son to be one's own). However, Salim continued to reside and enter the house of Sahla (the wife of Abu Hudhayfa) as he was a minor. When he grew old and came close to puberty, both Abu Hudhayfa and Sahla disliked the idea of him entering freely upon Sahla, but they found it difficult to mention this to him, given the fact that he had lived with them (and was brought up by them), hence they asked the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) regarding this. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to Sahla: "Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the dislike) which Abu Hudhayfa feels in his heart will disappear" hence she suckled him and it so happened (i.e. the dislike of Abu Hudhayfa disappeared)..." (al-Mufhim lima Ashkal min talkhis Kitab Muslim, 4/186, Dar Ibn Kathir print)

The above clearly illustrates that Salim was adopted by Abu Hudhayfa and his wife Sahla. He had lived with them and was raised and brought up by them since childhood. However, Islam does not recognize legal adoption and a adopted child is not considered a real child, hence after reaching puberty, the rules of Hijab are applicable. It became very difficult for Salim to live with his adoptive mother due to this rule, thus the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) advised Sahla to make Salim drink her breast-milk, whereby the rules of Hijab would be lifted.

It is narrated in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'd and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it. He did not directly drink from the breast of Sahla, as it is not permitted to expose one's awra in front of a non-Mahram adult let alone have him suckled. Thus, the objection raised by some non-Muslims that this was an immoral act has no significance, for Sahla did not directly suckle Salim, as he had reached puberty. Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) has also mentioned this in his al-Isaba fi tamiz al-Sahaba. (See: Tabaqat Ibn Sa'd, 8/271 & al-Isaba, 4/337)

This leaves us with the question whether is it allowed for an adult to drink breast-milk, and what implications would that hold?

It is a well-known and recognised fact amongst the majority of the Muslim jurists (fuqaha) that suckling is not permitted after two (or 2 and a half) years, neither does it affect the rules of Hijab and marriage. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) quite clearly mentioned this in one Hadith where he said: "...suckling is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period." (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 2504 & Sahih Muslim, no. 1455) The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) also said: "Suckling (radha'a) does not prohibit (i.e. marriage) except which penetrates the intestines (m: meaning which serves as a nourishment for the child) from the breasts, and it is prior to weaning." (Recorded by Imam al-Tirmidhi in his Sunan, no. 1152)

Due to the above narrations, all four Sunni schools of Islamic law are in agreement that suckling and breastfeeding will only be considered (i.e. in effecting the rules of marriage and Hijab) if it takes place in the period designated for it, and it is of no significance after that period.

Thus, scholars mention that the permission given by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) for Sahla to give her milk to Salim was a special dispensation and an isolated case, and it cannot be generalized. Imam Abu al-Abbas al-Qurtubi (Allah have mercy on him) states that all of the Prophet's wives with the exception of A'isha (Allah be pleased with them all) considered this to be a special dispensation, and this is the view taken by the majority of early (salaf) and late (khalaf) scholars. They considered the Hadith to be specific with Salim and Sahla, and are of the opinion that it is not permitted for an adult to drink breast-milk. If an adult did drink breast-milk, it will be of no consequence with regards to marriage and the rules of Hijab. (See: al-Mufhim, 4/186-187 & I'la al-Sunan, 11/119)

Moreover, Umm Salama, the wife of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to say: "All the wives of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) rejected the idea that one can come to them (without observing the rules of Hijab) with this type of breastfeeding (i.e. the suckling of an adult), hence they said to A'isha (Allah be pleased with her): "By Allah, we do not consider this but a dispensation given by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) for Salim. No one is to be allowed to enter (our houses) with this type of fosterage and we do not subscribe to this view." (Sahih Muslim, no: 1454)

Thus, in conclusion, it is not permitted for an adult to intentionally drink breast-milk; neither will it have any bearing on the rules of Hijab and marriage. The companion Salim (Allah be pleased with him) was given a special dispensation by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) to drink the milk of Sahla, the wife of Abu Hudhayfa, due to the special circumstances of their case. However, Salim did not directly drink the milk from the breast of Sahla, rather, she would pour the milk in a utensil and he would drink from it.

And Allah knows best
Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2010 at 8:55pm
Bismillah,
 
Assalamulaiakum Brother Abuaisha,
Ramadan Kareem to you and your family as well!
 
Thank you for your warm welcome to visitors like myself.
 
 Barak Allahu Feek, may Allah reward you for the detailed response.
 
First, I had always thought that Salim (the adopted son) had not reached puberty at the time of this despensation ... which was obviously based on another discussion I had read somewhere - not sure if it was on IC forums, khair inshAllah.
 
I did not find this hadith in the collection of Bukhari - perhaps its not easy to look for a particular hadith in such a huge volume.
 
Anyway, thank you once again for the response above.
 
Regarding the impermissibility of breast milk for adults found a related answer available through the link below.
 
 
Hope this is of benefit to some.
 
nausheen
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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fais
 
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Quote fais Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2010 at 12:36am

salam and Ramadan kareem Brother abu aisha and sister nausheen.

When i was reading this article by you i was very un comfortable as the sucking of and adult a womans breast is against islamic teachings.and alhumdullillah by the end i got my answer that salim did not suck directly.

 

It is narrated in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'd and elsewhere that Sahla would pour her breast-milk into a utensil each day for five continuous days and Salim would drink from it. He did not directly drink from the breast of Sahla, as it is not permitted to expose one's awra in front of a non-Mahram adult let alone have him suckled.

By this i came to know that if we know the base of our deen we can subconciously decide weather a hadith is authentic or not and then do a reasearch when have doubts.
 
Similarly when i heard the rule of halala to marry your previous wife i was so uncomfortable and finally i got my answer.
 
A woman is not allowed to marry someone with the intention to marry her last husband,and the man who gets ready for such a deal is given a simily of bull or i think a male goat which is used to breed basically a stud.
 
To sum up what i meant to say is it is always neccesary to apply the basics of islam in whatever we hear as hadith.
 
Regards
Faisal


Edited by fais - 02 September 2010 at 12:37am
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