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Tony_Manc
 
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Quote Tony_Manc Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2005 at 6:32pm

nico, no I don't think that the attacks are justified, and I don't think that suicide bombing is Halal.

I understand people hitting back. I will never understand the mind set of a suicide bomber. And please don't insult my intelligence by saying that they have no other option. They do, and I blame the people who use their religion to get young people to do it. Promise of great things in the afterlife is a shameful way to get one of your own to kill themselves. Anyone who condones or encourages such actions should be ashamed.

What I do think is that in their position, I would want to hit back. I wouldn't, however, strap explosives to my back.

targetting innocent civilians can never be excused, not by anyone, from any side, for any reason. Understand that a lot of people in the UK were against the invasion, so how can it be right to kill them?

"Stop attacking Islam"  It has nothing to do with Islam, and I suspect that you know that. It is to do with oil. And it will be to do with oil until it either runs out, or the demand for it runs out.

Islam is an unforunate victim in this, just like the civilians on both sides.

 

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Yusuf.
 
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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2005 at 7:07pm

America and the globalizers are indeed at war with Islam, and with all other faiths as well. Truly religious people don't buy alcohol, tobacco, guns, expensive cars, and all the other destructive products from which the globalizers profit. True Muslims are actually a greater threat to them than the terrorists. Terrorists fight and die. End of the story. But true Muslims don't use guns. They bring peace and hope to people's lives.

The globalizers must try to wipe out Islam or one day there will be no one to buy their guns, their drugs, everything that destroys humanity.



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Tony_Manc
 
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Quote Tony_Manc Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2005 at 7:18pm
Well I'm sorry that you believe that Yusuf. You believe what you must.
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Yusuf.
 
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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2005 at 8:37pm

Originally posted by Tony_Manc

Well I'm sorry that you believe that Yusuf. You believe what you must.

Which part do you not believe?

That America is attempting to create a world consumer culture to buys its products? There is more than enough evidence to demonstrate that. That is the essence of the globalization project.

That America has no respect for other ways of life? In my life I have seen overwhelming evidence: Vietnam, Chile, Grenada, Iraq all demonstrate clearly that the United States will impose its will upon other nations whenever it can, regardless of morality or cost in human life.

That religious people don't drink, smoke, or kill?

That corporations do not profit from drinking, smoking, and killing?

Samuel Huntington laid the groundwork for the rationale of a war on Islam in his notorious book "Clash of Civilizations," the tenets of which the neocons all ascribe to.

To not believe that America is at war with Islam is to deny the overwhelming evidence. I'm sorry they have duped you.



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Quote jibreel Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2005 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by Tony_Manc

no I don't think that the attacks are justified, and I
don't think that suicide bombing is Halal. I understand people hitting
back. I will never understand the mind set of a suicide bomber.

We all agree that killing is a sin, period.,
But this war over control of oil is not just a few years old, it goes far back
and costed many more innocent peoples lives since the zionist movement
and the fact that most of it was due to how much information the public
knew about it only became a question up until now to ask why anyone
would give there lives to hurt other innocent people
and why.

Originally posted by Tony_Manc

And please don't insult my intelligence by saying
that they have no other option.

Then explain what you would of done to stop the Nazis during the 2nd
war if you where a Jew and all the people in Germany thought the same
things about Judaism that people are starting to think about Islam from
all the propaganda, and jews had no weapons to fight with?, would you
commit suicide knowing that you will fall into the hands of doom anyway?

The statement you made makes suicide Bombing more justifiable because
you know very well that who ever has the WMOD could stop all of this
instead of use it against other people for oil..

Originally posted by Tony_Manc

I blame the people who use their religion to get
young people to do it. Promise of great things in the afterlife is a
shameful way to get one of your own to kill themselves. Anyone who
condones or encourages such actions should be ashamed.

The Blame Game is a OLD Nazi Propaganda tool., they also practice proxy
wars.
So You blame people who use there religion?, but who gives the U.S. the
right to act on the part of NAZISM and go to other countries and tell them
how to run them? its teh BLAMING that they use as a excuse.

You know very well its not Islam that created Sadam Husaein., or
Zionism.. Its Bush, the CIA and his Son that called up a war where people
would be sacrificed in a effort for the continuation of a ethnic cleansing
ideology in a book Hitler's wrote called "THE NEW WORLD ORDER".

Did these NAZIS out smart you with politics? BLAME IS THERE TECHNIC.

Originally posted by Tony_Manc

What I do think is that in their position, I would
want to hit back. I wouldn't, however, strap explosives to my back.
targetting innocent civilians can never be excused, not by anyone, from
any side, for any reason.

Do you recommend that they bomb the UK from the sky the same way
there civilians where bombed? i do not think they have these WMOD do
you?

Originally posted by Tony_Manc

Understand that a lot of people in the UK were
against the invasion, so how can it be right to kill them?

Think carefully about what you just said., at first you think your right,
innocent people died, and they did, but your only thinking about the U.K.
and the people who where against it who do not deserve it,

i on the other hand i think no one deserves it., and i also think about the
lives that have been lost, raped, murdered unjustifiably, so what still
gives you the right to cry about the U.K. since no one stopped this yet?

Originally posted by Tony_Manc

"Stop attacking Islam" It has nothing to do with
Islam, I suspect that you know that. It is to do with oil. And it will be to
do with oil until it either runs out, or the demand for it runs out. Islam is
an unforunate victim in this, just like the civilians on both sides.


That we muslims knew from the start, but of-course the people that
voted for tax cuts will never listen to muslims right?
As Bush said, kill 2 birds with one stone while your at it., he knew he
could not attack Iraq and yet hear it from Muslims in his own country, so
how do you shut them up with out making camps again?

Are you now convinced about the "BLAME TACTIC" propagand tool yet.
Islam forbids using others or to lie, would you decieve yourself if you
have this fact on yourside if you wanted to know the truth?

This tactic is the very excuse they need to invade IRAN next while at the
same ethnically cleanse there country of anyone opposing a war., no
questions asked with the "Patriot/Nazi act", and the Gestapo's are back
from HELL making sure of that.

These are people that all ready lost all good in life, why do you think they
would jeopardize others lives to get the very things they believe will buy
them paradise, the kind of paradise with lots of money on a island with
hookers and cheap thrills., and they do not plan on sharing it with
anyone else.

While the so called Bombers believe there paradise is withing, its a war
that people do not know about, a secret war on islam, muslims, and un
desireables.

The U.S. has already prepared for North Korea as well, i see there global
interests here.

And if the U.S. was not under a threat of a revolution for a ever failing
corrupted goverment thanks to the same people since the Reagan
administration they would of never needed to go abroad and use the
blame tactics to distract there people., but like Hitler and the Nazis , a
idea can be a way to excuse there tyranny to justify a struggle,. the
blame game is the ideal way.


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Yusuf.
 
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Quote Yusuf. Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2005 at 10:12pm

Assalamu alaikum,

Bush and his ilk are simply following the advice of Nazi Hermann Goering:

"Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."

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jibreel
 
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Quote jibreel Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2005 at 1:36am
Assalamo Alaikum

"NEVER AGAIN" ? or back again?.

I really believe what i hear in Europe about the States, that the nazis never
lost the war, they simply got jobs in the states and moved there with the
war booty.

It has been getting exposer only in the recent years based on hard
evidence that its all true, on top of that several Broadcast T.V. interviews
of some SS members got stolen a few times, with only the FBI finally
admitting that the CIA did not want this information out and about.

Well, the Nazis never lost any war, they simply work for the CIA.,
And there next move is the NEW WORLD ORDER.

'NEVER AGAIN' -- REALLY?
=========================
[Col. Writ. 1/27/05] Copyright 2005 Mumia Abu-Jamal


Sixty years ago, Auschwitz and its sisters were shut down, as the then-
Soviet Union and the United States were rolling up the Nazis, and
crushing their formidable war machine. ?? Now, the U.S. runs torture
chambers in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Guantanamo Naval Base in
Cuba. They ship out those they want to sub-torturers in Saudi Arabia,
Pakistan, Egypt, or elsewhere.

Torture is compared to college pranks by right-wing fascists in America,
and indeed, so did the former Pennsylvania prison guard, Specialist Chuck
Graner, who, while on duty at Abu Ghraib's torture center, likened
stacking naked men in pyramids to college girls doing half-time
gymnastics !
Torture is compared to college pranks by right-wing fascists in America,
and indeed, so did the former Pennsylvania prison guard, Specialist Chuck
Graner, who, while on duty at Abu Ghraib's torture center, likened
stacking naked men in pyramids to college girls doing half-time
gymnastics

Today, American nationalism, fueled by the fear of 9-11, has allowed
torture to be practiced in its name, and has exalted men who see the
infliction of physical and psychological pain and torment, as something
'quaint.' It has looked at the hells of Sudan, and blinked, turning away,
for Black life, in America as in Africa, remains ?'life unworthy of life.' ??

'Never Again?'

Yes, again -- and again-- and again-- and again. ??
Copyright 2005 Mumia Abu-Jamal


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Tony_Manc
 
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Quote Tony_Manc Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2005 at 1:44am

I agree with a lot of what you say. But I still think that you are wrong in saying that it is a war against Islam. It's a war based on greed and power. Religion doesn't come into it, it's merely a bystander, a casualty in specific places, not a world wide obsession aimed at it's destruction.

I know that I can not convince you otherwise, any more than you can me. I am not attempting to do that.

Think carefully about what you just said., at first you think your right, innocent people died, and they did, but your only thinking about the U.K.  and the people who where against it who do not deserve it,

No, I am not only thinking about the UK people who died, I was just answering a specific question. Of course I thought about those who have died and continue to do so in Iraq, otherwise I would only have mentioned the UK casualties.

It's not good when you try to twist what people say or take their words out of context, it only serves to weaken your argument. I am not trying to weaken your argument, or change your mind, as I said, you believe what you must, as do I.

Do you recommend that they bomb the UK from the sky the same way there civilians where bombed? i do not think they have these WMOD do you?

You ask me how terrorists should attack the Uk? And you seriously expect me to answer that? How should the US attack Islam so as to keep casualties to a minimum? You do yourself a grave injustice asking things like that.

And it's no good blaming blame on yet another party, especially the Nazis.  If you encourage or condone killing then  that is not Halal. True? If you encourage your own people to kill themselves YOU ARE TO BLAME!  Not the nazis, not the West, YOU. Saying that 'blame' is a propoganda tool is just a diversionary tactic. You know it, and I know it. If your religion told of dire consequences in the afterlife for anyone taking their own life, how many suicide bombers would come forward?

It really is a shame but both sides say the same things. 'See things our way, and all of this nonsense can be stopped.

As long as that attitude prevails it will never stop.

 

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