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Islam for non-Muslims
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Message Icon Topic: Who wrote Quran? Post Reply Post New Topic
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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2005 at 8:50pm
Thank you Mazellen, but your statement, "Unfortunately some saw this, too, as "innovation."" is biased.  Obviously it was an innovation though not a verbal innovation, it was a literal innovation.  A language with an alphabet(i.e., a written language) is not complete until it does not contain the alphabet for all its verbal conterparts.
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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2005 at 8:56pm
My dear brother, though I have already spent alot more time than is usually required for such simple questions that you have asked, but nevertheless, you don't seem to go through them.

Brother, I first thank you for your valuable time given to me.

My questions are critical.  They are ought to be.  But they are not simple questions simply because, as you yourself see, every Muslim has his own opinion and it is very hard to know what the truth is.  Just read this whole topic once and you will find a lot of ambiguity in it.
And even your replies aren't complete.  They lack the essential element, i.e., confidence.  I had been to many Muslim forums and have asked the same question.  One person does not agree with the other.

Your recent post raised many questions.  I will ask them in the next post as I have to leave to work.

Until then, good bye!
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mazallen
 
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Quote mazallen Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2005 at 10:33pm

Originally posted by beloved

Thank you Mazellen, but your statement, "Unfortunately some saw this, too, as "innovation."" is biased.  Obviously it was an innovation though not a verbal innovation, it was a literal innovation.  A language with an alphabet(i.e., a written language) is not complete until it does not contain the alphabet for all its verbal conterparts.

I was referring to the first authorized version of the Qur'an -- which (according to some historians on Wikipedia) certain people saw as "innovation" or bid'a.  Fortunately these were a very small minority.  However, the point is moot since (as Br. Deus has pointed out) the diacritical marks were not added to the Qur'an until well in the Umayyad Khalifat (by Al Hajjaj bin Yusef, r.a.)  May none of these postings lead anyone astray.

Subhan'allah and Peace  

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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2005 at 8:14am
Any student of Islamic literature would recognize this, though the reference themselves says it also. e.g. Bukhari, VI, No. 520; see also Nos. 518, 519.]

That is why I did not quote it.

Definitely, ahadith collection was done very much after Quran was compiled.

Yes, I know it, but you missed my question, "
And who wrote the hadith?"

The fact that Ahadith were writtne after Holy Quran leads to a lot of deviation of facts.  How can we believe in Ahadith which is purely based on memory and that too long term memory?

It indeed tells us that Quran was compiled right in the presence of Prophet Mohammad and hence not a later addition. Also, though verbally, it doesn't preclude that it wasn't done in the written form as well. Isn't it? This is especially true in the light of second evidnec.

But you don't even know whether it was compiled in hard copy from the Ahadith's Bukhari.  It is, to say, an open statement.  Let's take the second evidence you have given.

'We used to compile the Qur'an from small scraps in the presence of the Apostle.' [Itqan, I, p. 99; Salih, p.69.]

The statement is not comprehensive.  It does not convincingly say that Holy Quran was written again.  If it was written, can we know where that Holy Quran is present?
Above all I did not find this Salih in the Ahadith.  Can you please give me the reference.


My dear, this compilation, as we understand is, to put all the Quranic verses in order and in one place as we also know that Quran was not revealed in choronological order. Hence, this compilation must relate to this job of putting the verses in order as what we now have Quran with us, right in the presence of Prophet Mohammad.


I still did not get any answer for why was the Holy Quran not revealed in the chronological order?  From your answer at the end of the topic, can I take it that no one knows the answer?

Please tell me whether It was written or just remembered verbally.

Later day compilations were to make it in one or more bound copy/ies of Quran as per need basis.

Acha, is this your assumption or something with enough proof?

Thank you.
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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2005 at 8:18am
I was referring to the first authorized version of the Qur'an -- which (according to some historians on Wikipedia) certain people saw as "innovation" or bid'a.

Brother Mazallen, thanks for being prompt.
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ontherise2
 
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Quote ontherise2 Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2005 at 10:14am

This is what he writes:

My dear brother, though I have already spent alot more time than is usually required for such simple questions that you have asked, but nevertheless, you don't seem to go through them.

Brother, I first thank you for your valuable time given to me.

My questions are critical.  They are ought to be.  But they are not simple questions simply because, as you yourself see, every Muslim has his own opinion and it is very hard to know what the truth is.  Just read this whole topic once and you will find a lot of ambiguity in it.
And even your replies aren't complete.  They lack the essential element, i.e., confidence.  I had been to many Muslim forums and have asked the same question.  One person does not agree with the other.

Your recent post raised many questions.  I will ask them in the next post as I have to leave to work.

Until then, good bye!

He must have forgotten that this is an even greater problem with his own christian religion.

I wouldn't call it ignorance, just deception....as usual.

Dear muslim brother and sister, don't spend too much time discussing with these guys, their only purpose is to make you weak in your faith.

On the positive side (they don't want this) you will actually learn more about Islam and your faith will be stronger. You will learn that christians are totally misled.

May ALLAH s.w.t guide you and strengthen your faith. And you christian or non-muslim reader, may ALLAH s.w.t (GOD) guide you too so you can come back to basics and the true religion of GOD.

Peace

 

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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2005 at 7:04pm
Brother, ontherise2, if you are so confident that Holy Quran is the word of God, then why are you so sad about such a simple question?

Whether it is ignorance or deception, God knows best.

No need to blame me, if your faith is good enough no one can make you weak.

So first be a good Muslim then try to suggest others.
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2005 at 7:55pm

My dear beloved, thanks for your comments and concerns, however, I do now realize that you don't know even the ABC of Islamic literature. This is clearly evident once you ask such questions and once replied you start posing as though everything was already known to you. "Definitely, ahadith collection was done very much after Quran was compiled.

Yes, I know it, but you missed my question, "
And who wrote the hadith?""

This kind of arguments are sicken in nature, if nothing else, simply because any ordianary student of Islamic literature would know this.

On the more, here is a lot more what reveals your true knowledge once you say 

........The fact that Ahadith were writtne after Holy Quran leads to a lot of deviation of facts.  How can we believe in Ahadith which is purely based on memory and that too long term memory?....

 It seems that you really need to learn about the fundamentals of science of hadith. Surely, I am not the one who is going to teach you a lesson.

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