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Islam for non-Muslims
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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2005 at 5:26am
To make things a little clearer may I suggest using the rightly mentioned word "scribes" instead of "writers".

But wasn't the Quran written?  Of course it was.  Then whats the point you want to make?

It is a good attempt to confuse readers, but fortunately these matters are well taken care of in Islam... as opposed to Christianity.

People have been confused not by my question as you think.  If you feel confused, its your insecurity.  And why to bring Christianity into our discussion?
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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2005 at 5:33am

Dear Bro Beloved, as far as you question

Quote:

Yes, I want the names of the scribes who have written them down and which scribes' version are we having presently.

is concerned, it has been reasonably answered.

Did you read my post completely.  Let me paraphrase myself again, " Scholars are very divided on this issue.  Not all agree with what you have said.  Different Islamic websites give different writers and some does not even give any names. The names you have given  were companions of Prophet and the word "scribes" is a newly found word. "

Do you see any ambiguity in it? Put forward your hypothesis, if you have any, and we shall see how can we respond to it, Inshallah?

Hope that you have understood the ambiguity.

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MOCKBA
 
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2005 at 9:29pm

Bismillah

Beloved,

Since you have mentioned that "scholars are very divided on the issue" of who wrote the Quran, please provide some reference for your statement.

We have numerous cases of 5 or 7 year old children who have memorised the Qur'an long before they have learnt how to write. Now if one of these children, once he/she has mastered writing skills, decides to write the Qur'an down from his memory, would you also consider him/her a "writer of the Quran"? And call it his/her version of the Quran (from John, from Matthew, from Luke etc.)? Nonsensical reasoning.

You are hitting the wall with the question you posted, yet refuse to withdraw.

 



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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 07 August 2005 at 9:40am

Since you have mentioned that "scholars are very divided on the issue" of who wrote the Quran, please provide some reference for your statement.

Brief History of Compilation of the Qur'an
Adapted from an article in Perspectives, Vol 3, No. 4, Aug/Sept 1997

The "Perspectives" magazine has its own perspective about the compilation of Quran saying that anonymous writers wrote it and Zayed Ibn Thabit compiled it.

http://www.memphisdawah.com/PDF/who_wrote.pdf

The Memphis Dawah Team says God authored It but does not mention anyone who has written it.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/quran/quran_who_wro te.htm

TheModernReligion.com tells us that "God wrote it!".

http://www.submission.org/mo-write.html

Dr. Rashad Khalifa
says that "Prophet Muhammad Wrote God's Revelations With His Own Hand".

Though I have quoted these from the internet (which I feel are not reliable), I can even quote from the books available in the market on this subject.

We have numerous cases of 5 or 7 year old children who have memorised the Qur'an long before they have learnt how to write. Now if one of these children, once he/she has mastered writing skills, decides to write the Qur'an down from his memory, would you also consider him/her a "writer of the Quran"? And call it his/her version of the Quran (from John, from Matthew, from Luke etc.)? Nonsensical reasoning.

Thats your reasoning, not mine.
I think you know more about Holy Bible than Holy Quran.  But we shall keep the Holy Bible aside.

As Muslims believe, Quran is the word of God.  Mohammad listened to it thru arch angel Gabriel.  But now we have only the verbal form which had to have a hard copy. 

As we understand, the hard copy was compiled from anonymous sources.  We believe that Zayed Ibn Thabit has compiled it without any ambiguity believing in the verses 2:23, 10:38, 11:13, 17:88 etc which themselves form the part Zayed's compiled Quran. (Zayed, with the help of the companions who memorized and wrote verses of the Qur'an, accomplished the task and handed Abu Bakr the first authenticated copy of the Qur'an. The copy was kept in the residence of Hafsah, daughter of Umar and wife of the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)..)

And this hard copy has again been turned into verbal for many people have memorized it.

You are hitting the wall with the question you posted, yet refuse to withdraw.

Thank you for your concern, but I would rather be happy if you don't hurt yourself with my question.

P.S. 1. Mockba said, "from John, from Matthew, from Luke etc.".  I say, "Atleast Christians reveal to us from whom they have heard the revelation for the second time (first time from Jesus Christ) and agree that some of their revelations have been taken from anonymous writers or sayers."

2. I also want to know what is the purpose of "dotting and diacritization" of the Holy Quran?
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Quote Lehua Replybullet Posted: 07 August 2005 at 12:36pm

Beloved,

I can only try to answer you first question for I have no knowledge of the second.

The Holy Bible and Holy Koran cannot be compared.  The Holy Bible is compiled first person accounts of Prophet Isa (Jesus) (pbuh).  While the Holy Koran is the acctual ravealed word of God.  Prophet Mohammed (phub) instructed his close companions to enscribe it because he was illiterate and he instructed multiple people to inscribe it to ensure authenticity of it.  If only one person was to enscribe it, it would be easy to manipulate.  However multiple people enscribed it to ensure that it would not be altered.  And the authenticity was ensured by Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) reciting it angel Gabriel (as mentioned above).

Lehua

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beloved
 
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Quote beloved Replybullet Posted: 08 August 2005 at 6:14am
Even Jesus Christ's words are the inspired words of God for He was the Beloved Son of God.

We still don't know the names of the scribes who inscribed Holy Quran.  It implies that Quran was compiled from anonymous writers, which is not true.
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Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 08 August 2005 at 7:53am

Bismillah

Beloved,

I could site you a numerous list of other self-acclaimed "Islamic" websites that would strongly support your argument and add many more. Fortunately, all these websites, including those you have quoted have nothing to do with Islam other than trying to establish deviant teachings and later attribute them to the Qur'an and Sunnah.

There is no requirement for someone like yourself educate members of this forum on authenticity of the Quran and methodology used in writing it down. It is indeed unfortunate that Bible did not retain its original content and evolved to contain blasphemy, and as such there is no need to compare it to the Quran.

  

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 08 August 2005 at 9:31am

My dear bro beloved, your response

" Did you read my post completely.  Let me paraphrase myself again, " Scholars are very divided on this issue.  Not all agree with what you have said.  Different Islamic websites give different writers and some does not even give any names. The names you have given  were companions of Prophet and the word "scribes" is a newly found word. "

First off, Yes, I did read your post complelety. However, since you had been answered completely as far as your foremost question was concerned without any logical arguments to contradict it, hence, your later comments were without specifics. Not to assume anything, I asked for the specific differing veiws that may seem troubling to someone.

Secondly, I think you know the difference between a "scribe" and a writer. Don't you? So, then you clarified that your questions were pertaining to scribes and not the writer, since we all know that the writer of Quran is Allah and Allah alone. It is in this context, I think, now you would be able to see the things matching up.

To those websites which do not provide the names of the scribes, I think, its not logical to construe that none of the scribes existed. Isn't it? Its the deficiency of the websites and nothing else.

The names of the scribes, that have been provided in earlier posts, though are the names of the companions of the Prophet, but they were specially appointed scribes as well. From where else one can think that such scibes could come from, if not from within the companions of the Prophet himself? Hence, this is not a refutation of the point that those indeed were the scribes of the Prophet for the purpose of writing down the Quran.

If "scibe" is a newly found word for you, what do you expect from us? Open up the dictionary and find the meaning yourself. I think its not a big deal. Isn't it?

Now, coming to your posts in other replies where some refernce to other website has also been given.

"The "Perspectives" magazine has its own perspective about the compilation of Quran saying that anonymous writers wrote it and Zayed Ibn Thabit compiled it." 

You haven't provided any reference to your statement. Kindly do that to dissect it to reveal the truth. Thanks

"http://www.memphisdawah.com/PDF/who_wrote.pdf

The Memphis Dawah Team says God authored It but does not mention anyone who has written it
."

"Doesn't mention anyone who wrote it" could only be the weakness of the website authors and nothing more than it.

"http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/quran/quran_who_wro te.htm

TheModernReligion.com tells us that "God wrote it!".
"

 
Its a true statement. Kindly distinguish between "writer" and the "scribe". This is the source of confusion if someone doesn't realize the difference between the two.

"http://www.submission.org/mo-write.html

Dr. Rashad Khalifa
says that "Prophet Muhammad Wrote God's Revelations With His Own Hand".
"

Dr. Khalifa has neither rejected nor debated the source of this information concerning the scribes of Quran. Hence doesn't merit any consideration. Clearly, people like Dr. Khalifa, who don't accept the ahadith literature even if it is authentic, needs to invent some new ways to make his followers believe his concocted theory. 

Now as far as your comments are concerned "As we understand, the hard copy was compiled from anonymous sources.......... "

I can only say that this is totally a unsubstantiated statement despite clear evidence that there were many numorous scribes, some of whose names have also been shown on this forum, who wrote down the verses of Quran as they used to reveal to Prophet Mohammad. Among them Zayed ibn Thabit was the one who also presided the committee later on, which was formed for the duty of binding the Quran in the Book form later at the time of Hazrat Abu Bakr, the first Caliph of Islam.

 

 

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